Putting test results: not touching disc w/ pinky at all helped me with clean releases, pop, wobble

[RowingBoats]

Great post. There's no such thing as putting in disc golf. It's a short, forward facing throw with a reach down instead of a reach back. Once you figure that out, who knows what you're capable of.

I guess I should concede one point that goes against what I am saying, and how I putt - people out there do succeed with pure spin putts so it is possible to get good at a stroke that violates some of my core personal preferences.

I don't recommend it, and most pros have a stroke that aligns with this philosophy.

 

[sidewinder22]

I think it allows my shoulder to swing more to target counter-clockwise, so it's the opposite of driving. I load the shoulder back open into the right hip more like a horseshoe putt.

 

[RowingBoats]

I think it allows my shoulder to swing more to target counter-clockwise, so it's the opposite of driving. I load the shoulder back open into the right hip more like a horseshoe putt.

I was going to ask where your downswing goes, and that makes a lot more sense now lol.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

I appreciate the video, and it looks like a solid putt, but I just can't seem make that finger motion/pop like you do, might help to have longer fingers. My thumb joint doesn't like that pushing motion.

There's lots of ways you can putt effectively. I tuck my pinky into the rim so the disc is loaded back into the palm/thumb base and I can almost putt without my thumb tip while the base of the thumb holds the pressure. I just have to make sure my pinky gets out of the way on the forward swing.

Yeah, I can put the pinky in any of the common spots for wristy spin puts where I'm not trying to finger push much because for those I just kind of open my hand and let the disc spin out from some wrist action and a bit of a pivot between the thumb and index or middle finger (haven't decided which I like better yet between those pivots). However, I feel no loss removing the pinky for wristy spin putts without finger push tho.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

If you are flinging the disc way out to the right, you are simply not using ground up momentum in the right direction and do not have an accurate mental model for where your release point needs to occur. If you are extending your fingers late, you have disconnected your movement. I know ALLL about doing this lol. When I built my stroke in reverse at first, adding power almost always meant some form of herky jerky arm nonsense.

It is almost identical to the concept of grip lock, except putting strokes seem to attract a lot more manual override twitchy actions, and 'grip lock' is usually purely momentum direction. I wouldn't say you 'released' late if you grip lock a drive 30 degrees to the right. I would say your entire swing's momentum was misaligned.

The putting stroke becomes so much easier once you truly do understand that it is not fundamentally different from a drive. In both, I have a point in space that I am trying to snap my arm to.

Yeah but with putting don't people generally do some manual releasing (finger pushing or opening / removing) at the right time to release the disc cleanly?

Even if you say pivot between thumb and index finger you have to get the back fingers out of the way so they don't snag the rim which requires some manual intervention unlike a drive that forcibly rips the disc from the fingers.

Edit: this was just a thought experiment to see how you would address what many people would refer to as a timing issue with your model of not thinking about timing. I think it's just semantics, a fluid motion is a sequence of motions close enough together in time to feel flowy.

 

[ChrisinFL]

I am curious what percent of putts do recreational (not pro) good putters make? That is the category I am striving to be in - a very good recreational putter. I know I am not there yet. Right now, practicing ten putts at a time, I might average: 10' - only miss if windy. 15' - 90%. 20' - 70%. 30' - 30-40%. 35-50' - 10-20%. My main goal right now is to get 30' up to 50%, consistently. Secondary goal - improve 20' to 80% or more. I had a day last week where I was really on, and 30' or less I just felt like everything was going to go in. I made two putts from maybe 40-50'. I was playing with my regular group, 4 of us, and they all noticed and commented. I just wish I knew how to get that to happen every time I play!

 

[HB2017]

wave of momentum

Off topic but just wanted to draw attention to this excellent phrase and concept. I will absolutely be thinking about this while putting from now on.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

I remade the video in landscape and with better audio and some added explanations, including one about ground up inspired by @RowingBoats but with my take which is about how pressing up with the legs before raising the arm helps to break the inertia since your body carries your arm up with it, and then when you lift your arm it already has the momentum from your upwards body movement which makes the arm motion flow more effortlessly.

 

[RowingBoats]

I remade the video in landscape and with better audio and some added explanations, including one about ground up inspired by @RowingBoats but with my take which is about how pressing up with the legs before raising the arm helps to break the inertia since your body carries your arm up with it, and then when you lift your arm it already has the momentum from your upwards body movement which makes the arm motion flow more effortlessly.

Nice I definitely think your style can work.

For me, the arm isn't being lifted by my body rising in elevation. I am doing the exact same hip rock that I do in every other swing, its just much subtler when putting. There is a reason a ton of people have the rear leg in the counter balance pose at the end of the putting stroke.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Nice I definitely think your style can work.

For me, the arm isn't being lifted by my body rising in elevation. I am doing the exact same hip rock that I do in every other swing, its just much subtler when putting. There is a reason a ton of people have the rear leg in the counter balance pose at the end of the putting stroke.

Yeah some people prefer to rock more forward vs pressing more up from the ground. I press more forward from the ground when I want to keep the putt lower and press more straight up from the ground when I want more loft or in between the two for a balance of both.

However, the main point I was trying to make is that since your arm is attached to your body, whatever body momentum you create by pressing from the ground, the arm gains that momentum. So if you are going to lift your arm, waiting until the lower body breaks the inertia and gets the body up to speed makes it a smoother and more effortless motion.

Also, of course as we all know different cues work for different people. Instructing someone to try to create a 'wave of momentum' from the ground up may help someone a lot, or explaining it more granularly as multiple separate motions blended together in a sequence might click more.

However, I also think trying to instruct someone to do a 'wave of momentum' / fluid motion is often premature if they can't even perform simpler motions smoothly with coordination. Such as, if they have very poor control over their wrist, I think addressing that first separately will make the fluid motion instruction that comes after much more fruitful--but in this case it might just be best to have them think about not using their wrist at all and add it back in later once everything else is working well together.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

@RowingBoats sorry, edited some things in the last comment probably as you were reading, bad habit of hitting send too soon.

 

[RowingBoats]

Yeah some people prefer to rock more forward vs pressing more up from the ground. I press more forward from the ground when I want to keep the putt lower and press more straight up from the ground when I want more loft or in between the two for a balance of both.

However, the main point I was trying to make is that since your arm is attached to your body, whatever body momentum you create by pressing from the ground, the arm gains that momentum. So if you are going to lift your arm, waiting until the lower body breaks the inertia and gets the body up to speed makes it a smoother and more effortless motion.

Also, of course as we all know different cues work for different people. Instructing someone to try to create a 'wave of momentum' from the ground up may help someone a lot, or explaining it more granularly as multiple separate motions blended together in a sequence might click more.

However, I also think trying to instruct someone to do a 'wave of momentum' / fluid motion is often premature if they can't even perform simpler motions smoothly with coordination. Such as, if they have very poor control over their wrist, I think addressing that first separately will make the fluid motion instruction that comes after much more fruitful--but in this case it might just be best to have them think about not using their wrist at all and add it back in later once everything else is working well together.

Ya, I am never really trying to argue that my thoughts are objective truth If it comes off that way its not intentional. I like nerding out and talking about disc golf lol. Most of what I say is to describe how I personally progressed and the triggers that truly fundamentally altered my conceptions.

I am 100% with you that different concepts will hit people in different ways, and Im all for reading anyone's ideas. I agree with you that some people might respond well to more granular approaches. For me, that was one of my number one wrong roads I went down. Or, maybe it wasn't such a wrong road, and all of those mistaken thoughts and repetitions ended up coming together in the end. I can't be sure.

But, I will say that there have been several IMMEDIATE revelations in my learning, and turning the motion into a more holistic one, and not thinking about the order of events, is definitely one of them. There is a core integrity to any swing that needs to be in place that made everything so, so much easier for me, and I describe it as a wave of momentum

 

[disc-golf-neil]

but I just can't seem make that finger motion/pop like you do, might help to have longer fingers. My thumb joint doesn't like that pushing motion.

I'd love to see what it looks like when you try, I feel like anyone with relatively normal fingers should be able to get at least a decent amount.

Did you try the grip just holding the disc and trying to pivot it with the fingers?
Were your fingers underneath already extended? They need to start with some flexion of course so they have some extension available.
Did you feel the weight more on the right side of the finger tip? That's the side of the finger tip that is facing up when the fingers are extending forward, if the weight is predominately on the middle of the middle finger tip then the fingers would extend down towards the ground and not push the disc forward.

 

[Tinkles]

I've noticed that when my putts start yanking to the right, it helps to open/square up more to the target rather than close off more like a lot of people suggest.

We have a similar putting approach. I tuck the pinky in and its basically a fork grip only the index finger is on the rim rather than tucked. I tried to putt like Paul for a while and put the pinky on the plate but after a year of that my rating dropped 30 points... I went back and am spin putting better now. The tucked pinky helps me bend my wrist in more and get a more effortless spin putt.

When I try to do a Gannon style putt for longer ones, angling myself into a more closed position, I tend to push it right, I think because you are coming across your body left to right more (RH player). It does help me get more power, but I have reorient my focus to keep it on the pole.

 

[drk_evns]

Make the pressure between your middle finger and thumb the fulcrum of your grip and watch your putting issues flutter away.

Something unrelated that always helps me is making my entire body from back foot to the tips of my fingers a line that points at my target on release.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Make the pressure between your middle finger and thumb the fulcrum of your grip and watch your putting issues flutter away.

Something unrelated that always helps me is making my entire body from back foot to the tips of my fingers a line that points at my target on release.

Yeah this pressure point gives me the least wobble.

 

[RowingBoats]

Make the pressure between your middle finger and thumb the fulcrum of your grip and watch your putting issues flutter away.

Something unrelated that always helps me is making my entire body from back foot to the tips of my fingers a line that points at my target on release.

There is something dumb about my middle finger and the nail digs into the side of my fingernail bed if I do it this way haha.

I can see why this is a good grip though, it does work, I just inevitably start bleeding so I just use the good ole tucked index finger fan grip. Feels like I get more power for free but I can see the argument for the other grip.

 

[drk_evns]

Yeah this pressure point gives me the least wobble.

Yeah it's a nice video. I can't vibe with the way you're sort of gripping the edge of the disc as opposed to getting it deep in your grip. When the thumb and middle finger are closer to the middle of the flight plate, and the rim is lodged in the palm, it gives me better connection to the disc as a lever that I can feel.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Yeah it's a nice video. I can't vibe with the way you're sort of gripping the edge of the disc as opposed to getting it deep in your grip. When the thumb and middle finger are closer to the middle of the flight plate, and the rim is lodged in the palm, it gives me better connection to the disc as a lever that I can feel.

That part is mostly for if you want to add extra finger push, the fingers can push more from that position it feels like. However, the more I test out and practice wrist only without intentional finger push, the more I feel like the added finger push lever is just extra timing that could go wrong and is not necessary. However, with more finger push I don't need as much wrist to get power and spin so for some people it will probably be easier to control and time more finger pop and less wrist pop or for others less or no finger pop and more wrist pop.

When using no finger push it feels good with the disc deeper in the palm, but still feels good closer to the edge.

 

[drk_evns]

That part is mostly for if you want to add extra finger push, the fingers can push more from that position it feels like. However, the more I test out and practice wrist only without intentional finger push, the more I feel like the added finger push lever is just extra timing that could go wrong and is not necessary. However, with more finger push I don't need as much wrist to get power and spin so for some people it will probably be easier to control and time more finger pop and less wrist pop or for others less or no finger pop and more wrist pop.

When using no finger push it feels good with the disc deeper in the palm, but still feels good closer to the edge.

Interesting, I can see how the fingers become more powerful and active in that grip. I prefer to keep the power adjustments in my lower body so I can maintain as much consistency as possible in the arm and upper body. I wonder if that grip would better compliment a more spin-focused putt—although it could be harder to maintain timing.

I like that you mentioned maintaining focus on your aiming point for an extended period. I think this is almost as significant as the motion itself—the difference it makes is hard to believe. Sometimes I'll do putting practice sessions where I maintain eye contact with a single link until I've putted 20 times. For the setup and everything. It helps train that focus and your ability to apply it when you need it. Quiet eye.