[Question] Beat in disc, what's affected?

[MonkeyShine]

Glide increases when a disc gets dirty. That's because the dirt on the disc has the same charge as the dirt on the ground, and like charges repel each other. This is the same reason why new discs can't seem to avoid hitting trees or pavement when you throw them the first time. But eventually they will absorb tree molecules and stop heading straight for them.

When there are a lot of trees, a disc tends to rise or fall suddenly, that's because the disc doesn't know which tree it is most attracted to, so it deliberates, like when you see a donut but you're supposed to be on a diet.

 

[Travis1010]

My discs have so many tree molecules!

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

Glide increases when a disc gets dirty. That's because the dirt on the disc has the same charge as the dirt on the ground, and like charges repel each other. This is the same reason why new discs can't seem to avoid hitting trees or pavement when you throw them the first time. But eventually they will absorb tree molecules and stop heading straight for them.

When there are a lot of trees, a disc tends to rise or fall suddenly, that's because the disc doesn't know which tree it is most attracted to, so it deliberates, like when you see a donut but you're supposed to be on a diet.

This is, perhaps, the best explanation yet.

But since were all speculating . ..

Disc shape almost certainly has a greater effect on stability than simple surface smoothness/roughness. If increased drag were the explanation for overstability and decreased drag the reason for understability, all slower discs would be more overstable than all faster discs.

MVP discs are a good illustration of this. For example, the Shock, Volt and Amp all use the same core but achieve different stabilities simply by changing the shape of the overmold which only affects the very outer part of the wing. This seemingly small change makes for a pretty big difference between a Shock and an Amp.

Not knowing much about plastics, I wonder whether the plastics in discs change over time, subtly changing the shape of the discs with or without use.

 

[MonkeyShine]

On a serious note...

If it's true that the shape of the disc is a bigger determining factor, wouldn't you expect some discs to become more overstable? Why can't the leading edge bend upward rather than downward? Of all the theories, it seems to make the most sense that the lower surface of the disc becoming rough is the main reason, since that surface on average will receive far greater wear, unless you are throwing a trick shot like a tomahawk almost exclusively.

 

[PMantle]

On a serious note...

If it's true that the shape of the disc is a bigger determining factor, wouldn't you expect some discs to become more overstable?

No. I bought backups of some of my favorites long ago. I can take the originals of molds I throw in the woods and compare. PLH always goes down. One of my heavily used Trackers looks nothing like what used to be its twin now.

 

[ThinAir]

No. I bought backups of some of my favorites long ago. I can take the originals of molds I throw in the woods and compare. PLH always goes down. One of my heavily used Trackers looks nothing like what used to be its twin now.

Agree, this is true of everything but Champ/Z type plastics, IME.

 

[PMantle]

Agree, this is true of everything but Champ/Z type plastics, IME.

It may depend on the wing shape or thickness. For instance, the wing on a Champ Leo is fairly thick. I throw mine in the woods a lot. It has changed very little. Some of my higher speed stuff in these plastic with sharper/thinner leading edges have changed a bit more.

Now mids/putters changing? I don't understand that process at all.

 

[ThinAir]

It may depend on the wing shape or thickness. For instance, the wing on a Champ Leo is fairly thick. I throw mine in the woods a lot. It has changed very little. Some of my higher speed stuff in these plastic with sharper/thinner leading edges have changed a bit more.

Now mids/putters changing? I don't understand that process at all.

I guess if you get enough hits on trees it could happen. My well used Champ/Z/Opto plastics haven't had their wing edges changed, some small cuts and nicks though.

 

[MonkeyShine]

No. I bought backups of some of my favorites long ago. I can take the originals of molds I throw in the woods and compare. PLH always goes down. One of my heavily used Trackers looks nothing like what used to be its twin now.

I'm not disagreeing, I just don't understand why. Is it because of the angle of attack when the disc collides, or is because of the wing's structure that it tends to bend downward? And what about a disc that never hits a tree (presumably one of McBeth's)? Doesn't it still gradually break in?

 

[ThinAir]

I'm not disagreeing, I just don't understand why. Is it because of the angle of attack when the disc collides, or is because of the wing's structure that it tends to bend downward? And what about a disc that never hits a tree (presumably one of McBeth's)? Doesn't it still gradually break in?

My guess is wing structure or shape. It's already curved down and will become more so from impacts. Other wear that reduces stability is material lost from bottom of the disc, as someone else mentioned earlier.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

even without hitting trees the leading edge of the disc always is subject to some kind of impact and wear. Its why blunt nosed discs can handle more hits without changing as drastically and generally have an initial break-in which then the disc will stay at for a long time. Faster discs by design are going to change more even just from hitting the ground at a faster rate and harder angles.

Fast drives are hard on a disc!

 

[PMantle]

I'm not disagreeing, I just don't understand why. Is it because of the angle of attack when the disc collides, or is because of the wing's structure that it tends to bend downward? And what about a disc that never hits a tree (presumably one of McBeth's)? Doesn't it still gradually break in?

I think about it like this, and have absolutely nothing to back it up. The wing has support across the entirety of the top of the disc. As the disc hits things, I can see the top stretching over time allowing the PLH to lower slightly. What I cannot see is the top of the disc compressing to allow the PLH to rise.

 

[Moose33]

I think certain wing types are affected more than others as well.

For example I have a Giant and an Ape, both have similar flight paths fresh, but the Giants wing is curved on the underside, whereas the Ape has a fairly straight underside. The scooped out edge on the Giant and similar discs seems to beat in more quickly and create more turn. But discs with the more straight edge like the Ape, Jun, Krait seem to stay the same much longer.

My Champ Ape looks rough, but still flys basically identical to when I got it about 2 years ago.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I think about it like this, and have absolutely nothing to back it up. The wing has support across the entirety of the top of the disc. As the disc hits things, I can see the top stretching over time allowing the PLH to lower slightly. What I cannot see is the top of the disc compressing to allow the PLH to rise.

Pretty much. It's why a bead makes a disc retain stability longer. More support for compression.

 

[garublador]

On a serious note...

If it's true that the shape of the disc is a bigger determining factor, wouldn't you expect some discs to become more overstable? Why can't the leading edge bend upward rather than downward?

I'd guess that it's because of how discs are designed. To get the nose to bend up you'd need a disc that's designed with a "nose up" rim, which probably wouldn't fly all that well. Examining your beat discs will show that the rim does get bent down in pretty much all cases.

If you don't believe that bending is a factor, try "tuning" your discs sometime. Take a disc you don't really care about and bend the rim up or down to make it more or less overstable. It's handy for mitigating damage, but if you get too crazy with it your discs can get squirrley.