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Determining the right weight

Technohic

* Ace Member *
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
8,517
OK, I have flailed around with this for a while and early when I started, I think I was early 20s and thought you would have to be a sissy to use 150 class, but not long ago, went with some 150s instead and found them to be ok but if your not carefull, they can be too flippy. Currently, I am at a happy medium at around 165 for most my discs (asside from putters) but dont know if that is a good call.

Not really interested in my personal situation exactly but was just wondering if anyone had theories on weight of discs as far as maybe the same as speed?

Maybe "If you throw this distance, use this weight of disc"?
 
To me it seems that for lower power throwers a lower disc weight will allow the individual to achieve more distance with less power because the disc will have more glide. But at a certain point a lower weight will hinder the distance for thrower with more power.


Still working on developing a formula for you Technohic :D
 
I've still been thinking about it and maybe it wouldnt be this weight for X distance but rather maybe a ratio of grams to stability.

I Have a 167 Champ Leopard which for me probably has a HSS of -1 and a LSS of +1 when thrown flat.

I had a 150 Leopard that Im not sure what I would have rated it as it would flip, crash and burn if released flat, but put as sharp of hyzer I could on it and it would flip into a -2.5 HSS and 0 LSS, so flat maybe almost a -4 HSS?
 
I've posted my theory here before: I believe that weight is proportional to the amount of spin needed in order for the disc to achieve it's behavior/potential. I have tested (and written about) the experiments my friends and I have done on football fields with a wide variety of discs at different weights and plastics. Measuring pretty exactly how far they went, how they flew, the flight of each path, etc. Then did Excel wizardry on the whole data set.

Out of all this I believe that weight mostly affects the spin you need to put on the disc. The lower the weight, the less spin required. The reason "weaker" arms or beginners are encouraged to use lower weight discs has nothing to do with the strength of the arm. It has to do with their not having learned (yet perhaps) how to impart high spin on a disc at release.

As a concrete example, I bought 2 175g Boss discs, back when I thought I just needed faster discs to go farther (I throw ~300ft). The Bosses *always* hyzered out early, and I grew to hate them. I bought 2 150g Bosses, and began to get decent distances out of them. But sometimes they would turn over too much, and I didn't have enough control. This is because I, personally, don't have that much control over the amount of spin I impart. Sometimes I get great snap, sometimes I don't. The lighter weight Boss was greatly affected by this variance.

I finally settled on a 165g Boss, in R-Pro plastic. I still have a lot of variance in the amount of spin, but now my *best* spin just sends it into a bigger S curve (it never turns completely over into the ground) and my weakest spin has it go flat into a long slow hyzer. Both acceptable. And when I hit the sweet spot, then I drive ~375ft. Which is excellent for me.

Again, I've put a lot of analysis into this. Doesn't mean I'm right, but it's going to take a really strong data-driven argument to convince me otherwise. I think for each arm you want to learn your range of spin you impart on a disc, and adjust (typically lower) the weight of your discs until the average spin you impart is best for that weight. I've done this by slowly lowering the weight of almost all the discs in my bag (all now in the 160s, except for a few heavier ones for windy days, or special occasions.)

I also believe that what separates the pros from the amateurs is not arm speed, strength, or raw speed/power/spin. What makes them great is the ability to impart the amount of spin they know they need so consistently. They may not realize it, and certainly it is all through education, muscle memory, and feel, but I think that's the key to great golf. Imparting the correct amount of spin consistently so that you get the flight pattern you're looking for.

My $0.02.
 
Er, my post probably came across a little too strongly. This really is just a hypothesis, based on my observations and instincts. Bit more than a hunch. Sorry if it sounded a bit pompous.

Also, clearly velocity on the disc moving forward, and the speed rating of the disc play into the equation. A slower speed disc I believe is really saying that the disc will need less spin to achieve best results. A high speed disc (like the Boss in my examples) needs more spin to achieve results.

And if a disc is spun incredibly fast, but without forward velocity, it'll just fall to the ground :) So there's a lot of factors there. I'm just expressing that I think weight is highly connected to spin. And "speed" on discs I think is more of a expression of spin needed relative to another disc. (So a Speed 13 Boss needs more spin than a Speed 8 Gazelle, and a heavier weight Boss needs more spin than a lighter weight Boss.)
 
The is works for me
Going for distance- 165-168
Control-170+
But it varies for disc, my teebird is 168 and it is accurate because it is so overstable
 
Tiggertooth,

I do think you are partially right but overall speed is what is going to effect stability. This is why you throw overstable into the wind and understable with the wind. The wind makes the disc feel like it is going faster or slower making the disc more or less stable.
 
Nicely done. This makes sense as my friend that only throws fh prefers heavy due to the amount of spin it generates.
I throw heavy except for my max distance drivers. I'm thnking of moving my ex longs down to 169/170 due to the sucess of my 167 talon.
 
Tiggertooth,

I do think you are partially right but overall speed is what is going to effect stability. This is why you throw overstable into the wind and understable with the wind. The wind makes the disc feel like it is going faster or slower making the disc more or less stable.

I agree--wind has exactly that affect on stability. I think the stability of a disc is the behavior it exhibits when it has the "right" amount of spin. So an understable disc that doesn't have enough spin will not be understable. And an overstable disc that has *too much* spin will still behave understable. I do not think that stable discs automatically require more spin than understable discs or anything like that. A monarch requires more spin than a drone, even though the monarch is understable. Stability is just a "multiplier" or factor in calculating the spin you need to get the disc to do its thing.

So wind and velocity have a lot to do with stability, just as you said. I really made the stuff sound too simplistic in my first post.

As a side note, this is personally why I so greatly prefer disc golf to ball golf. The two sports share a lot in common, but I find that when I make a shot in disc golf, I have a lot more to think about. I'm not actually that good--I just enjoy considering all these different factors and trying to pick the right disc and put the right amount of tilt and spin on it. I guess I fail a lot :) But it is interesting.
 
I don't like my drivers weighing more than 172 unless it's supposed to be overstable, so around 169 is my sweet spot for distance drivers, fairway drivers around 172, mids the heavier the better, and putters ~172 as well.
 
Tiggertooth explanation is definately more then 2 cents worth, but in a good way. It would be interesting to see your raw data you collected.
 
I'm finding more consistencey with similar weights within a group or class of discs. To me, it makes each type of throw feel the "same" (putting, upshots, control drives, distance drive w/ X-step)

Putters: 175
Mids: 177-180
Fairways: 173-175
Distance: 167-172

Though I admit that a 167-168 Teebird makes a really nice distance driver with minimal turn, even though it breaks my rules. But then I would use it in a distance situation, not a control drive situation.
 
I have a pretty wimpy arm. (And always will.) What I've found works best for most shots is; The faster that disc the lighter the weight and the more under stable I like it. My drivers are 150s, mids 165 and putters 175. I do carry a 150 mid but it's mostly for control shots.
 
It does make sense. I guesss if you look at an extreme like a Boss, I would never touch one in my regular weight of 165 but I have one that is 146 that works fine, but that is also R-Pro so not sure how else it is modified.

The 165 Leopard I throw seems to be in a sweet spot, but I abandoned 150 classes because a Leopard in that weight was too flippy but maybe should of went up in speed and stability in that weight but I think you should be able to get a leopard further before it getting that flippy and using something like a 146 Boss does not help you improve.

Im just thinking out loud.

BTW, Anyone notice when a disc has a 150 class, it ends at 150 then jumps to 165, if not higher? Is that by manufacturer or just retailers not carrying the tweeny weights?
 
BTW, Anyone notice when a disc has a 150 class, it ends at 150 then jumps to 165, if not higher? Is that by manufacturer or just retailers not carrying the tweeny weights?

I would say that, like any manufacturer, you only make what you can sell. I'm sure they are targetting popularity. Retaillers would think the same way. There are exceptions, of course.
 
It does make sense. I guesss if you look at an extreme like a Boss, I would never touch one in my regular weight of 165 but I have one that is 146 that works fine,


BTW, Anyone notice when a disc has a 150 class, it ends at 150 then jumps to 165, if not higher? Is that by manufacturer or just retailers not carrying the tweeny weights?

Same with my Vikings. I was throwing about a 170 when I injured myself. When I started playing again I couldn't control it. So I stepped down to a 150. Big difference. Now that I injured myself again, 150 is a max weight driver for me.

BTW yes. It's hard to find a store around here that has anything between 150 and 165. And most have very little 150 stuff. I mostly shop on line now.
 
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