Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
In disc golf, what indicates that a backswing is completed vs incomplete?
In disc golf, what indicates that a backswing is completed vs incomplete?
In disc golf, what indicates that a backswing is completed vs incomplete?
I'm here at 40 wishing a lot of things.
I bet drills still have valuable insights for coaching. Regarding drive leg mechanics, bracing from the drive leg provides a solid base for pushing against. I mean the rear leg becomes a counterweight, resisting rotation.I'm not 100% sure which drill we are referring to, but let me first encapsulate with this.
99% of pro's have absolutely 0 reason to be giving lessons. They don't have a clue what they are talking about, they can barely explain what they are doing correctly let alone what a drill does.
They do have some insight for people who devote themselves to coaching though, as we can at least weed through the mud and figure out what they are attempting to mean.
There are some pro's out there who are pretty good practical coaches, but it's none of your top dogs, but they are elite level players.
Paul is the only top elite level player that is able to articulate any sort of coaching information, but its more on "how to play" not "how to throw."
I digress, I shall explain more below.
Drive leg Mechanics 101.
Were gonna start with this image. This is the basic idea of a brace/plant from the drive leg mechanics.
You're driving laterally into the brace and arresting the weight "BRACING" the throw to give it solid ground to drive back against.
This is why your "stagger" and "motion" across the tee pad are important to stop you from spinning out and to drive the brace into your throw, vs just stopping to change direction. We want the brace to initiate our rotation and drive the throw.
When you brace, your rear leg is done. All it is at that point is a counterweight. You don't want it flinging around, ala, "spinning out" and we don't necessarily wanna drag it like a boat anchor. It needs to hang back just enough, which it will do on its own if you're properly balanced and braced, to resist enough to drive the force up your body into the swing.
This is why its important for our off arm mechanics to be correct after that to continue to resist the rotation properly driving the swing.
This is why the "double move" is so dumb, and this "back leg throwing" is so dumb.
Your doing everything possible to spin really really fast while kicking your feet out from under yourself. All you're doing is spinning fast with no force.
Will this throw the disc? yes, but you've got no horse torques behind it. To properly drive power, you must brace properly.
There are 2 ways to do it, and 1 way is superior in my opinion.
You can drive the brace from your x-step. Or you can drive the brace from momentum.
Driving from your x-step requires better footwork and is far harder than using lateral energy down the tee pad in a "run up" which can allow for dirtier footwork.
With a driven brace from the x-step, your foot position must allow for you to drive powerfully into the brace and get the weight transferred. But you don't initiate the brace driving the knee down. that is wrong. And here students get knowledge on anatomy and free essays on biology. That's a reaction to the brace and the hips turning. But you do want your foot to be at least 90° to the target line (ish) not open to the rear, because the knee has to be in a position to push towards the brace laterally then ... as I said, get out of the way, its job is done.
With a run up, you just do this with momentum. Which is easier and works.
However, I personally feel the drive mechanic is better vs the momentum mechanic.
And here is why.
someone who can drive the brace can also add in momentum without screwing up their swing harmony. While someone who relies on pure momentum,.... ie see conrad, cannot simply "add in" a mechanic they dont use as it will mess up their timing.
Neither method is wrong, and top level pro's all use combinations of these.
But Paul is a good example of how slow and steady he is with his throws and driving the brace. Simon as well. They both drive the brace.
But when its bomber time, they back up and add some speed to brace harder.
If a better explanation of the image/drill i posted is necessary. let me know and I'll bump a video out on it. but this is a standard sports drill, there isn't anything "unique" about it. Almost every sport practices this. It's to help you feel the lateral brace.
In disc golf, what indicates that a backswing is completed vs incomplete?
Yesterday, I experimented with something different: trying to get a sudden and violent turn forward immediately out of the peak backswing. It felt like a much more sudden and brief pressure in my front foot. Rather than feeling like I'm using the ground to pull me through the entire throw (the old feeling) it felt like I used the ground to accelerate me from peak backswing up until roughly the power pocket (or a bit before it), after which the rest of the throw's rotation was just an inevitable continuation of momentum. In the old version of my throw, power pocket through to follow-through felt restricted by the fact that my brace leg was still glued to the ground in a closed position, but in this new version I felt safely de-weighted by the time it was time to follow-through. It was a new feeling, but I was able to reach ~360ft on flat ground (which has been my plateau for a long time) despite the fact that I wasn't in great control of my release angles yet with this new throwing sensation. Does it sound like this punchier version of the throw is something I should stick with, or am I on another wrong track?
Regarding "compressed like a spring", are you referring to the brace leg being like a linear spring, or the body being like a torsional spring, or both?^ Video is best & words are weird...
Land and resist the earth while compressed like a spring, pushing it away from you. Your plant leg/brace should be responding/reacting to landing on your leg stacked well with momentum like a pitcher...
I'll leave "violent" to the philosophers and video, but whatever the words, an abrupt shift against the backswing getting pulled taut is the idea... as the swing comes through it deweights quickly as you rotate into follow through.
Back to the thread topic and "KISS" - you need to move leg to leg in balance. IMHO try not to overfocus on bracing specifically...
Regarding "compressed like a spring", are you referring to the brace leg being like a linear spring, or the body being like a torsional spring, or both?
Regarding "move leg to leg in balance", should I always feel like I'm in control of my body's momentum, or should the final 3 steps feel like my momentum is going forward and I can't stop it (until the brace) and my legs are just keeping me from falling/sitting down to the ground?
As for video being better than words, see link below. In the first video, it feels like my momentum is unimpeded/uncontrolled until the brace, and then my brace leg is relatively rigid (not spring-like... more like a kickstand). In the second-video, my momentum feels much more controlled (perhaps to the point of not even adding much to my shot?) but my brace leg feels much more springy and like I am actually pushing against the ground with my leg. Would love your thoughts on whether or not there's anything from either video that looks to be on the right track as far as this discussion goes.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3891373&postcount=20
I was thinking about starting a new thread to discuss this concept, but found this post insteadive seen this before written on here about when thinking about hitting the hammer on the wall the body syncs up and doesnt have to think about throwing at a 10 oclock position.
This quote below i saw in the comments of the golf video and it is now something i just think about and my body just syncs up regarding my lower body
"The purpose of the stride is to generate forward momentum that is stopped by a firm front side"
of course practice helps but when im in the field i dont want to think about very fine movement (rotate leg, then swivel, then fall then down) i like to think just of that quote. then my body just does the rest
I'm with you. I have had a lot of success recovering my best moves using just this thought if I get lost somewhere. It's also hard to "see" on camera sometimes, but it's obvious in your own head.I was thinking about starting a new thread to discuss this concept, but found this post instead
I have been spending time trying to simplify the swing lately. Smashing the 10 o'clock position is by far the most effective 'swing thought' I have discovered. And I mean SMASHING the 10 o'clock position. I cannot snap my arm to 10 o'clock with power without naturally doing decent mechanics, I literally cannot do it.
I can do all manner of nonsense if I lose this simple goal somehow. I can start spinning out and generating a little bit of power, but the results of this type of swing are horrendous. All kinds of things happen. Wide spray angles, nose up (I suspect because my release point moves past 10 o'clock altering where the 'nose' of the disc is). It's just bad.
Am I wrong to think that this concept should be put far more front and center when teaching the feeling of the swing? I suspect that some people entertain the concept but do not fully explore how literal it really is. The 10 o'clock smash is actually kind of hard to pick out when you observe footage of other people throwing, the transition to the follow-through can be illusorily smooth.
Curious what other people think. Does anyone throw (reasonably) far and NOT viscerally feel this position as the overall goal?
Yup. This is why I think it might be a slightly overlooked concept. I think it is easy for some people to read "10 o'clock release" and think that is just a bi-product of a rotation oriented swing. Or something. I don't really know what I mean other than the fact that the feeling is extremely pronounced for me when I am swinging well.It's also hard to "see" on camera sometimes, but it's obvious in your own head.
I really like "self-healing cornerstone." Talking more about simplifying ideas here:Yup. This is why I think it might be a slightly overlooked concept. I think it is easy for some people to read "10 o'clock release" and think that is just a bi-product of a rotation oriented swing. Or something. I don't really know what I mean other than the fact that the feeling is extremely pronounced for me when I am swinging well.
It is also a self-healing cornerstone to return to when I have been working on other things and maybe slip up in other areas. It is just the key to so many aspects of things people seem to be trying to control or time in more nebulous ways.
Like always, I cannot be sure if this is actually something that will help newer players, or if it is just a useful wrapper over the top of all of the things I have learned to incorporate in my swing.
I think there is something to it though, because things like the closed shoulder snap drill almost instantly boosted my understanding of what I was trying to do. If I could teach myself how to swing, I would probably almost start there and make sure the concept is actually cemented and known to be far more literal than it might otherwise seem.
Do you have a good example of this I can peek at?I often notice a release way to the right of the run up in pros, especially when they're throwing big hyzers. I've wondered if the "10 oclock hit" is just a compensation for this release, and a "12 oclock hit" is just as (if not more) powerful—you just have to compensate for the release to the right with the run up. Thoughts?
Np haha always down to learn something new. This is very much a feel/thought thing for me, but im curious to learn what is actually happening toosorry, I don't actually mean 12. I mean somewhere after 10 but probably before 12. I'll look for examples. I see it a lot of the disc coming out right for Paul, but GG is who I think of when I think wide shoulder angle.
Yeah, I think it's worth searching around for the exact release point for maximum force in terms of the "clock" - it seems to relate to the shoulder angle width.sorry, I don't actually mean 12. I mean somewhere after 10 but probably before 12. I'll look for examples. I see it a lot of the disc coming out right for Paul, but GG is who I think of when I think wide shoulder angle.