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Generate more spin
- Thread starter Tudubs
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2008
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- 21,978
Spin typically increases with speed due to leveraging the disc. Typically trying to increase spin by curling the wrist slows speed down.
This is a bit of a misnomer...
The faster the disc is rated, the more spin or rotations are needed for it to perform according to the flight numbers.
So, are you trying to generate more spin to get more distance out of your lower speed discs, or are you trying to create more spin so your fast discs perform closer to their ratings?
In my opinion, the best way to achieve more distance is more control over your body/motion. Back off the power until you've solidified a nice smooth form. Even then, I think you'll get better results with a more controlled motion...
Grippenripp
* Ace Member *
Form work and in some cases its the pinch point. This is the way I understand it anyway.
What I noticed about my throws is that my drivers have wobbles to them when I try to throw for max distance. I can throw mids and putters without wobbles and have good control.
I think my problem is that my hand isn't on the outside of the disc enough. What's the best way to keep the hand on the outside when trying to throw farther? If it's not the wrist, is it my elbow?
It is difficult to diagnose the root cause without seeing you throw... The wobble question leads me to believe that the issue may be your grip.
Regarding grip, there could be a couple different issues:
1. Strength: Are you gripping the disc tightly?
2. Size: Are your hands large enough to wrap all four fingers around the rim of the disc?
I would focus on form. I generally throw farther when I power down a bit, focus on smooth motion, release flat to let the disc do the work it was intended for.
Nate also has some good tips
https://youtu.be/lzQbyA6Rxww
I think you're right about the grip.
1. I'm not gripping it tight at least not super tight.
2. I have small hands, my index finger barely can get under the firm.
https://youtu.be/OZvrA2ThfFE
This is me not throwing hard just trying to throw with good form. And it's a mid. Sorry you can't see my feet well.
Here's a formula that has 100% worked for me. There is simply no doubt. And this just isn't my discovery, pros have suggested this and it works.
a) Always track your distance and try to beat your max d every time you do these drills. During these drills it's not about "relaxed form", etc, you really want to push yourself, consider it a work out. Eagle has said "To get max distance I threw the most overstable drivers, over and over, until my arm fell off." lol..
b) To increase your snap/spin: Throw putters. They require more spin to go further.
c) To increase your arm speed: Throw the most overstable discs you can find. They require more speed to go further.
It took me a few weeks or so to start seeing gains. I saw the quickest gains in slower speed discs. My putters, mids started to glide...forever. It still generates a wtf look from others when I throw my Deputy (putter) pushing 300ft. It's always funny to have a bomber who can throw 450+ try to throw a putter and they fail miserably. It's not about the arm speed on those slower discs.
lol.. I'm an older player so I know I'm limited in max arm speed, but there is no doubt the overstable drills have helped. My max distance "capability" has probably improved by 80ft and my typical controllable distance off the tee has increased by 30-50ft.
Another side effect of these drills is having more confidence, distance, control, in what feels like less overall power, especially in standstill or 1 step throws. So the approach shot should see some gains as well. Repeat these drills monthly and you should continue to see gains long term, but each gain will much smaller as time goes on.
a) Always track your distance and try to beat your max d every time you do these drills. During these drills it's not about "relaxed form", etc, you really want to push yourself, consider it a work out. Eagle has said "To get max distance I threw the most overstable drivers, over and over, until my arm fell off." lol..
b) To increase your snap/spin: Throw putters. They require more spin to go further.
c) To increase your arm speed: Throw the most overstable discs you can find. They require more speed to go further.
It took me a few weeks or so to start seeing gains. I saw the quickest gains in slower speed discs. My putters, mids started to glide...forever. It still generates a wtf look from others when I throw my Deputy (putter) pushing 300ft. It's always funny to have a bomber who can throw 450+ try to throw a putter and they fail miserably. It's not about the arm speed on those slower discs.
lol.. I'm an older player so I know I'm limited in max arm speed, but there is no doubt the overstable drills have helped. My max distance "capability" has probably improved by 80ft and my typical controllable distance off the tee has increased by 30-50ft. Another side effect of these drills is having more confidence, distance, control, in what feels like less overall power, especially in standstill or 1 step throws. So the approach shot should see some gains as well. Repeat these drills monthly and you should continue to see gains long term, but each gain will much smaller as time goes on.
One thing that helps me get speed (spin) is to make sure my arm speed is greatest upon release. Accelerating through the release, not really losing speed by starting out my throw with a ton of speed. `
Here's a formula that has 100% worked for me. There is simply no doubt. And this just isn't my discovery, pros have suggested this and it works.
a) Always track your distance and try to beat your max d every time you do these drills. During these drills it's not about "relaxed form", etc, you really want to push yourself, consider it a work out. Eagle has said "To get max distance I threw the most overstable drivers, over and over, until my arm fell off." lol..
b) To increase your snap/spin: Throw putters. They require more spin to go further.
c) To increase your arm speed: Throw the most overstable discs you can find. They require more speed to go further.
It took me a few weeks or so to start seeing gains. I saw the quickest gains in slower speed discs. My putters, mids started to glide...forever. It still generates a wtf look from others when I throw my Deputy (putter) pushing 300ft. It's always funny to have a bomber who can throw 450+ try to throw a putter and they fail miserably. It's not about the arm speed on those slower discs.
Another side effect of these drills is having more confidence, distance, control, in what feels like less overall power, especially in standstill or 1 step throws. So the approach shot should see some gains as well. Repeat these drills monthly and you should continue to see gains long term, but each gain will much smaller as time goes on.
I never heard of this but it's a good idea. I just think if I've bad form then doing this will create bad habits fast and it's a lot harder to unlearn.
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To counter argue some of the above advice, some of the top distance throwers ever don't that grip hard and don't throw that hard. They use the same principles of the Long Toss Drill in baseball to throw further, you loosen up.
Ken Jarvis former world distance record holder, said all he focused on in training was throwing more effortless which is also what I've focused on. If you watch him throw it looks effortless.
Chris Max also former world distance record holder, "smooth is what gives you speed", and he uses a loose pinch grip shown in video below. All you need is to control the disc, trying to grip tight and hold on is a myth or not using an ideal swing arc. You can change the swing arc to delay the centrifugal force trying to rip the disc out. If the disc actually rips out, it's actually slowing it down as that is drag and friction. You can't accelerate the disc any more once the disc's center of mass passes your wrist.
Ken Jarvis former world distance record holder, said all he focused on in training was throwing more effortless which is also what I've focused on. If you watch him throw it looks effortless.
Chris Max also former world distance record holder, "smooth is what gives you speed", and he uses a loose pinch grip shown in video below. All you need is to control the disc, trying to grip tight and hold on is a myth or not using an ideal swing arc. You can change the swing arc to delay the centrifugal force trying to rip the disc out. If the disc actually rips out, it's actually slowing it down as that is drag and friction. You can't accelerate the disc any more once the disc's center of mass passes your wrist.
So I'm not sure what I need to work on after all the discussion. Do I need to grip it better? Keep my hands on the outside? But for sure don't curl my wrist. Besides get better form which is too general aka get good. Anything I can focus on to get more spin?
Anything I can focus on to get more spin?By a quick glance at the video you posted, it looked like your upper body timing is a bit off (or sequence is a little backwards, as sw22 would prefer) and you lack weight shift. Once you get your upper body behind the brace properly your power (and also spin) increases considerably.So I'm not sure what I need to work on after all the discussion. Do I need to grip it better? Keep my hands on the outside? But for sure don't curl my wrist. Besides get better form which is too general aka get good.
It has nothing to do with good or bad form, that's something entirely different. But slower discs need more spin, fasters discs need more arm speed. The drills I mentioned will help with both.
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
My #1 concern about aiming to increase spin, is that almost without fail, players will try to snap the disc more. Easiest way to spin a disc is to drag a disc by the nose and pop it like a towel. Lots of spin, not so much speed.
The deeper you get the disc into the power pocket while keeping the hand on the outside - the deeper you're drawing back the bow string on your bow. Deeper pocket = faster ejection and faster spin rates.
Deep pocket + meaningful brace + strong frontside + stacked posture (nose over toes) and your going to be throwing a putter 300' with zero muscle effort. It's the physics doing all the work, outside the muscles keeping the disc wide of the body and stopping the arm from collapsing.
The deeper you get the disc into the power pocket while keeping the hand on the outside - the deeper you're drawing back the bow string on your bow. Deeper pocket = faster ejection and faster spin rates.
Deep pocket + meaningful brace + strong frontside + stacked posture (nose over toes) and your going to be throwing a putter 300' with zero muscle effort. It's the physics doing all the work, outside the muscles keeping the disc wide of the body and stopping the arm from collapsing.
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I think this makes so much sense. I think when I throw smooth/mids and not muscling I do get deeper in the power pocket vs throwing for power (drivers) thus leading to less spin and wobbles. I know what to work on now. Thanks so much.
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Missed the video earlier.
You are leaning back behind your rear foot, so your backswing is behind the rear foot, and you actually decelerate striding into the plant and trying to push off rear foot too late and it spins out.
Need to get forward of the rear foot, so your backswing is leveraged targetward inside rear foot and can accelerate forward striding into the plant.
You are similar to the guy on right in green shirt, but your rear foot isn't as backwards and posture isn't as folded/collapsed.
I agree for the most part, but what concerns me (and is why I mentioned those drills earlier) is you can get used to throwing around 60-70% and get great results, decent distance, more control, etc, and never maximize your true potential...when it comes to max distance. At some point you are going to want to throw as far as you can and you want to know what it feels like to "give it all you got", etc, etc. I think some people get used to throwing less than max power and then all of a sudden try to throw it far, those are the ones grip locking, releasing early, etc, etc. Like other parts of our sport, muscle memory is vital on max d throws too so it's important to let it rip once in a while and develop proper form on those throws as well.
HyzerUniBomber
* Ace Member *
This is something important and something that stops players at 425'. The reasoning that throwing full-power means they'll have to put something more into it.
You can start trying to add muscle in, or IMO better option is go the long catch route with a Roc and truly focus on settling into the frontside.
Case in point: take a tennis racquet and swing it as you would a backhand. You can hear the sound of the strings cutting through the air, giving you an idea of the speed. Personally, I get huge bonuses in speed from staying loose and firming up the frontside.
You can start trying to add muscle in, or IMO better option is go the long catch route with a Roc and truly focus on settling into the frontside.
Case in point: take a tennis racquet and swing it as you would a backhand. You can hear the sound of the strings cutting through the air, giving you an idea of the speed. Personally, I get huge bonuses in speed from staying loose and firming up the frontside.
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