Help a beginner out please.

[djjeremiahj]

There was too much to try to sort through to quote, so I'll just summarize.

djjeremiahj, there are a couple major assumptions you're making that many believe are incorrect.

First, that we can tell someone how to have the most fun or that we can assume they aren't here for technique help. He's going to do what will be the most fun for him no matter what. People don't ask questions like this on boards like this because they don't know how to have fun. They aren't looking to just go out and hang out with their buds. They do it because they want advice on how to impove. Giving him answers to his questions that will give him the best all around results is the only logical way to respond.

Second that a really fast disc will give a brand new player, even one with an Ultimate background, instant distance. If you take a brand new player and give them a stack of discs of different speeds, they'll probably all go about the same distance. They won't be able to generate the speed or nose down to get them to act differently. It will take practice and learning to get the faster ones to go farther. Learning to throw a Cheetah 280' and learning to throw a Katana 280' will take about the same amount of time from scratch. The former will require better technique and you'll have more control and consistancy (and the Katana will probably go like 300' at that point.) Why spend the time learning how to not throw as far while also learning bad habits and giving up control? Who's that fun for?

Third, that this advice is for people striving to be compeditive, pro level players. This advice will get you to the good rec, crappy intermediate level. Lots of practice will get you beyond that. This is advice for anyone looking to improve. Given that he's not unathletic and he's looking to improve (which is why he's asking), it's safe to assume that if he follows good advice and enjoys practicing and playing (also assumed because he's asking) that he can learn to throw fairway drivers 330'-350' (at least) in 3-6 months. You don't even need to play every day or spend hours practicing. It's quite a bit easier than most people realize if you follow the right advice. You don't become a pro player in that amount of time. Even with just playing a couple rounds on the weekends you can make real progress month to month without sacrificing anything by just following the right advice.

that is exactly the point. give a young guy with a small arm the tools to immediately plug into the game and have fun.

also, this all seems because i advised him to get a katana.
i am guessing that you probably dont own one.... it is quite literally "instant distance" for almost any player. (whether or not its throw correctly is different.... but it's design inherently will fly farther than ANY other disc a player has. Hands down, no joke, nothing... Seriously, instant distance.)
Why not give him the tools to add 40-50' just by adding a disc? It will fly a lot farther than ANY mid, or putter he can throw... AND with decent control. If this is "cheating"... so be it.


If he does play enough to hit a ceiling, then it's on him to decide how to get past it... until then, i'm just trying to help him throw far and have fun.
(NOT, try to be a pro.... maybe a small handful of guys on this forum actually started with the "mid range" technique, the rest of us threw what we could find, we liked, etc... and are no less for the wear. In 1 year's time, he probably wont be any farther ahead or behind using either method.)

Too many people take things too seriously, and lose perspective that we are merely ambassadors to the game, and not coaches.

 

[skinner21]

no one here is teaching him how to be a pro. garublador was stating what your assumtions are. Please learn to read.

no one has referred to using overstable discs as "cheating" like you keep saying. what they are saying is that it is bad advise. It is more beneficial both now and in the future to throw low speed drivers and mids. He will have more fun now and later instead of learning bad form now and working twice as hard later to fix it.

 

[sidewinding]

With and Aviar Driver, Katana, Roc, Beast, and Monster you could rule the world. Trade everything else in on more putters to practice with.

 

[Technohic]

I will admit to not starting with the mids, even a Leopard fairway driver and would like to follow with how painful it is to then hit a plateau and have to go backwards fast to fix my bad habits and slowly regain and excede that distance the right way.

I wish someone would have told ME and I wish I would have listened to using only mids when I started. I would say today though that you can get by with a slower fairway driver like a Leopard or something in between mid and fairway like an Impact and do fine as well without killing much distance at all. Especially if you dont get nose down. Stall outs kill distance much more than slower discs.

 

[Technohic]

Stall outs kill distance much more than slower discs.

I just want to emphasis this point.

 

[ERicJ]

my premise is based on the fact the beginning player isnt trying to be competitive. They are just trying to learn and catch up.

Well if they're trying to learn then they shouldn't start out throwing high speed drivers.

you guys are trying to teach the guy how to be a pro player, and all i am trying to do is give him a good time. struggling isnt a good time.

I don't think anyone doling out advice here is under the delusion that anything we say will make a noob into a Pro player. People are just advocating methods, based on their own experience, that they think will make the noob a better player.

For a young arm, YES a wild wraith @ 300' always trumps a "perfect" teebird @ 260'. That 40' means a completely different shot for them.

Maybe the one out of five times they throw the wild Wraith correctly the difference is 40' closer to the pin... but the other four wild throws are likely to be no closer than a "perfect" TeeBird @ 260'. And if they're not playing a completely wide open hole they've probably hit some early trees with that wild Wraith....

 

[toothyfish]

First, that we can tell someone how to have the most fun or that we can assume they aren't here for technique help. He's going to do what will be the most fun for him no matter what. People don't ask questions like this on boards like this because they don't know how to have fun. They aren't looking to just go out and hang out with their buds. They do it because they want advice on how to impove. Giving him answers to his questions that will give him the best all around results is the only logical way to respond.

Second that a really fast disc will give a brand new player, even one with an Ultimate background, instant distance. If you take a brand new player and give them a stack of discs of different speeds, they'll probably all go about the same distance. They won't be able to generate the speed or nose down to get them to act differently. It will take practice and learning to get the faster ones to go farther. Learning to throw a Cheetah 280' and learning to throw a Katana 280' will take about the same amount of time from scratch. The former will require better technique and you'll have more control and consistancy (and the Katana will probably go like 300' at that point.) Why spend the time learning how to not throw as far while also learning bad habits and giving up control? Who's that fun for?

Third, that this advice is for people striving to be compeditive, pro level players. This advice will get you to the good rec, crappy intermediate level. Lots of practice will get you beyond that. This is advice for anyone looking to improve. Given that he's not unathletic and he's looking to improve (which is why he's asking), it's safe to assume that if he follows good advice and enjoys practicing and playing (also assumed because he's asking) that he can learn to throw fairway drivers 330'-350' (at least) in 3-6 months. You don't even need to play every day or spend hours practicing. It's quite a bit easier than most people realize if you follow the right advice. You don't become a pro player in that amount of time. Even with just playing a couple rounds on the weekends you can make real progress month to month without sacrificing anything by just following the right advice.

This is MONEY!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$

I am testimony to what Garublador, ERicJ, and others wrote and everyone who echos this. It works! The day I pulled every disc faster than a Teebird out of the bag was the beginning of my real improvement. And I am newish as well to the sport.

Working on a nice, clean snap is the key, done best using putters and mids. Not worrying about how FAR they go, but looking at how WELL they go is the essential element. You will get feedback quickly. We say we throw discs, and I could throw my Valkyrie 240 my first day. I can also throw the stapler on my desk pretty far, too.

Learn to fly the disc. Create the spin so that it flies...glides, that is. Once you get the feel of a smooth, clean snap, you can begin to add the power to it. The distance comes on its own, with control to boot. It takes some patience and a bit of discipline, but it is well worth it in the end.

I used to think that because I could get a disc to turn that my power was improving. Somewhat true, but I was also forcing it a bit, creating a wobbly, fluttering flight. Didn't see it right away and the faster stuff will hide it a bit. Your putter won't, it will flip right over.

Anyway, I hope I didn't beat a dead horse, but offer some support of the good advice here. It works.

Believe me, being able to throw a Roc 300 ft in control is fun!

 

[sidewinding]

Here's what Innova says about the Katana: Best Choice for: Fast, long, easy distance off the tee. Huge turnover shots.

I would say that the closest disc Innova makes to the Katana is the Beast and here's what they say about the Beast: Best Choice for: Maximum Distance, turnover driver, tailwind drives, beginner players looking for more distance from a driver.

The first time I ever played disc golf my brother took me out to a wide open hole with a duffel bag of about 30 discs and said throw all these discs and you can use the one that goes the farthest and straightest to play a round with. It was the Beast and I threw one for months and still occasionally use one for turnovers.

One last point: I throw farther than about 95% of the people I have ever played with and I learned with fast drivers.

 

[Bubbajoe]

I will admit to not starting with the mids, even a Leopard fairway driver and would like to follow with how painful it is to then hit a plateau and have to go backwards fast to fix my bad habits and slowly regain and excede that distance the right way.

He's not alone. I'm guessing, but I think you'll find the majority of the folks advocating using slower disks to start are doing so from a patenal "Dont make the mistakes I've made" stand point.

 

[archmage]

I am a beginner, started in September, and I'm not aiming to be a pro player. I just want to play for fun, alone or with friends. I have found that noticing how my game is improving and my scores getting better is fun for me. Throwing discs that are good for improving my game is therefore very beneficial to my fun.

I started with too fast discs. For my first round a friend gave me a Wraith and a Rhyno. Then I bought a Monarch because Innova says it's suitable for beginners... Then I found these forums and lost my Monarch, and I got some proper discs. At the moment I'm playing pretty much with a Stalker, Roc and Aviar, although I also have a Roadrunner, and a V.P. that I won from a raffle.

As far as improving scores go, I only throw a measly 275-300' with the Stalkers, but I don't really need more distance to at least par all the holes in my local course, and could birdie many of them. It's more accuracy and consistency that I feel the need to improve the most. Of course, improving the distance is fun too, and it's really a nice "whoa" moment when you really get a good rip and go 20' longer than usually, but I don't need a faster disc for that. I can just keep trying to get these ones as far as I can, and I still get nice sense of accomplishment every time I'm getting a bit farther.

I've also got some real warm feelings inside a couple of times on the course when I've seen some other beginners drive Grooves or Bosses, and I've matched the distance with my Stalker. Or when I throw my putter 200'+ when others only use them for putting. Makes me smile and feel happy that I've found such great advice to improve my game, and I cannot wait to see what I can do next fall.

I do have a slight plastic fever though and been wondering what I could do with the Wraith now... But I've been resisting the temptation this far, and thinking that probably I could instead get a real windbeater and meathook like a Pred or FB next.

So there's one beginner viewpoint to the matter. I can't say I speak for all of them, but I'm sure there's many like me

 

[sidewinding]

I bought a Monarch because Innova says it's suitable for beginners... Then I found these forums and lost my Monarch, and I got some proper discs.

A new Champion disc in any mold (even a Leopard and TeeBird) is going to fly so stable when it's new that many players (new and experienced alike) seem to get disappointed and many times will give up on the disc and even harbor a hatred for the mold and never want to try it again. I say break it in before you bad mouth it.

 

[okiebullgod]

A new Champion disc in any mold (even a Leopard and TeeBird) is going to fly so stable when it's new that many players (new and experienced alike) seem to get disappointed and many times will give up on the disc and even harbor a hatred for the mold and never want to try it again. I say break it in before you bad mouth it.

church

 

[shoe59]

Here's my 2 cents.

I'd trade the Beast, it's just not a great disc anymore. There are way better options out there.

This makes me feel like this --->>> :wall: :wall: :wall:

What has "filled the place" of the beast so to say? I still think it's a great disc and really versatile... don't see myself losing the beast from my bag for quite a while. My avatar is even a beast...

I'll admit I don't throw it nearly as much with all the new drivers flooding the market (and my bag), but I can always count on it for a nice long straight drive.

 

[sidewinding]

This makes me feel like this --->>> :wall: :wall: :wall:

What has "filled the place" of the beast so to say? I still think it's a great disc and really versatile... don't see myself losing the beast from my bag for quite a while. My avatar is even a beast...

I'll admit I don't throw it nearly as much with all the new drivers flooding the market (and my bag), but I can always count on it for a nice long straight drive.

I think he is referring to the fact that the newer Beasts are a totally different mold than the old Beasts and just not as reliable. There is a thread about it somewhere but I'm not motivated to search for it right now.

 

[shoe59]

I feel the opposite, I like the new Barry Schultz Beast as compared to the old "pro line" beast. I'll try and search for that thread later, thanks.

p.s. I don't think that's what he meant though.

 

[sidewinder22]

You grip locking torque monkey!

 

[shoe59]

was that directed at me?!

 

[sidewinder22]

Maybe...are you?

 

[KMaC]

are you kidding me?
any noob will instantly add 20-30' with it. Out of the box and throwing poorly. Within a week or so of practice he'll be up to the 250-300' range.

i'm helping the guy out from a noob perspective and how to get instant distance and results. The game is a lot more fun when you can drive a bit farther, and not look like you "suck" in comparison to the others. For most noobs, this can be overcome with disc selection.When they get good enough to realize there is another level, then they can start thinking about those concepts. but until then, help the guy cheat and throw far.

furthermore, the katana is a disc that would improve the distance and game of all skill levels (save super pros).

I didn't read the whole thread, I stopped at this post so if this has already been addressed, please ignore the following:

You're not helping him by adding "instant distance" to his game. This will only hinder your development. If the only way you know to add distance to your drives is to buy the newest, beefiest, baddest driver and all you get is another 20', then you're not really improving anything, are you?

You can keep buying all of Innova's speed 293847239874 drivers, but if that's the only way you know to add distance to your game, I'll keep out driving you with my Teebird and laugh at you for wasting your money.

 

[tmahan]

You can keep buying all of Innova's speed 293847239874 drivers, but if that's the only way you know to add distance to your game, I'll keep out driving you with my Teebird and laugh at you for wasting your money.

yeah, but when he gets that speed 293847239875 disc he's gonna take you.