Holy Rounding Batman! Need help with muscle memory

[clean-slate]

https://youtu.be/i5rxiAZ1ikQ

Hey y'all,

So I've been here before and my backhand form is pretty bad. I'm throwing about 300 with this form, maybe 320.

So, this form is obviously really bad. I have a friend who helped me work on it a couple weeks ago, and during field work I threw a 430 foot drive with little effort after getting the feel of the plant. I spent time throwing a weight into the ground using my brace and then transitioned to throwing a disc and it worked pretty well. But I'm unable to replicate it.

Here's my issue: old habits die extremely hard and a week later I've regressed back to my old form.

My X-step is wayy too big, adding to my rounding , my plant foot is opened and not at 90, my reach back is way too early, my reach back is also rounded and not out and I don't feel like I'm trusting my brace because the way I'm spinning on the plant foot indicates that I'm not properly bracing all of my weight. I feel like a lot of the bad habits come from having a fundamentally flawed brace that may come from having a really wide X-step.


I have a few questions:

1. What does the brace "feel like?" again? I've been told it should feel like I'm fixing to fall on my butt (because all of my weight is on the front plant) but the swing should counter balance. My form is more braced than I used to be, but clearly not trusting it.

2. What is a routine/set of drills that I can work on to get the feel of the brace while also getting rid of this really bad muscle memory? I'm a bit overwhelmed by how many drills there are, and I wanted to focus on the ones that can really help me get that fundamental feeling of a brace.

I can talk theory all day, but I really want to get rid of my awful muscle memory. Thanks!

 

[lostDoughnut]

1. for myself it feels like when i trip and catch myself. Have you ever walked on a course and your foot hits a tree root, you then begin to fall forward, for a split second nothing is holding your body up [you are in a freefall], your other leg quickly whips out in front of you and stops you from falling. the leg that catches you feels heavy as it has to catch your bodys weight plus the momentum gained in the freefall. not only has it to catch it , but has to stop/push back or else it collapses and you fall into the ground. shorter version : Its a quick sudden stop of momentum.

a video of someone 'falling/tripping' and then catching themselves shown below (entire video is worth the watch)

https://youtu.be/Q6Oylh4t8G8?t=333


2. what clicked for myself was this video below (i had watched tons of videos prior, but this is what i remember as being very influential)

(basically this thread was the starter

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134329
)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypfx-L8qz08&t=611s

it starts at a certain time. note how he makes this small shuffle step to the right. he lets his body fall for a brief second then catches himself? i did the same thing but then i stepped further than him. i felt this quick jolt in my leg that caught me.

i took that concept and used it in my standstills (example of that shown below)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bANYDzElTiw

(the sole purpose of the video above is to show how i started in my standstill and moved my plant leg and then i fell onto it. me falling into that plant leg 'braced' myself' . reason i say that is because other things im doing wrong)

i was still doing stuff wrong, but i was getting a new feeling that i could work with.

once i felt the brace the next issue was that i was falling over my brace. that was caused by the drive leg( left leg) not being used correctly. this thread helped me work on that

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137173

thats where i am at currently trying to get my legs perfected. or being able to throw farther with less effort

 

[clean-slate]

1. for myself it feels like when i trip and catch myself. Have you ever walked on a course and your foot hits a tree root, you then begin to fall forward, for a split second nothing is holding your body up [you are in a freefall], your other leg quickly whips out in front of you and stops you from falling. the leg that catches you feels heavy as it has to catch your bodys weight plus the momentum gained in the freefall. not only has it to catch it , but has to stop/push back or else it collapses and you fall into the ground. shorter version : Its a quick sudden stop of momentum.

a video of someone 'falling/tripping' and then catching themselves shown below (entire video is worth the watch)

https://youtu.be/Q6Oylh4t8G8?t=333


2. what clicked for myself was this video below (i had watched tons of videos prior, but this is what i remember as being very influential)

(basically this thread was the starter

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134329
)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypfx-L8qz08&t=611s

it starts at a certain time. note how he makes this small shuffle step to the right. he lets his body fall for a brief second then catches himself? i did the same thing but then i stepped further than him. i felt this quick jolt in my leg that caught me.

i took that concept and used it in my standstills (example of that shown below)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bANYDzElTiw

(the sole purpose of the video above is to show how i started in my standstill and moved my plant leg and then i fell onto it. me falling into that plant leg 'braced' myself' . reason i say that is because other things im doing wrong)

i was still doing stuff wrong, but i was getting a new feeling that i could work with.

once i felt the brace the next issue was that i was falling over my brace. that was caused by the drive leg( left leg) not being used correctly. this thread helped me work on that

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137173

thats where i am at currently trying to get my legs perfected. or being able to throw farther with less effort

This is all really helpful, thank you!

Interestingly enough, I actually started doing one leg drills today and it was really helpful. ISidewinder's windmill drill and loopghost's drills are really helpful.

As for the brace, I'm glad to hear that someone else has worked on getting the brace feeling. Your description of it is really interesting, I will have to work on that some and then report back. Thanks!

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[clean-slate]

Hey sidewinder,

Checking back a bit later after doing some of these drills.

I had a couple questions regarding weight shift:

1. When I commit to the plant, should my body weight be shifted behind me with my butt out? (I.e. if I didn't swing my arm to counterbalance, I would fall down on my butt?) Or can I commit to the brace without that weight behind me feeling?

That's one thing with the door frame drill that I feel is that I'm contracting my abs and pulling back, but if I released from the door I would fall on my butt.

2. When a pro swings the disc and their hips swing open on the follow through, it's because their right shoulder swings back (lat activation) and their posterior oblique sling pulls their left hip open, correct? Kind of like swinging a hammer into the ground off of a one footed plant. I'm trying to do less of the "pull across my body" and actively use my lats more in the throw, making it more of a swing and less of a traditional frisbee "throw."

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Not sure what you mean "butt out". Butt facing target. If your plant leg gave out or slipped you should fall butt first or on your left side as opposed to falling face first or right side.

2. Correct.

 

[clean-slate]

By "butt out," I mistakenly was thinking butt more perpendicular to the target. Almost like leaning back into a chair that isn't there, but I think I misunderstood something about the throw.

The butt facing target makes a lot more sense, especially because it's a more backward-directed swing of the disc using the lats. In the same way that I swing a hammer down into the ground and sort of behind me in the direction my butt faces, I would do the same in the RHBH throw. Is this correct thinking about the swing?

If so, this almost makes me think of the swing as less of a out motion in the pure horizontal plane of my pecs and more of a backward directed (where my butt points), high to low swing. Same source of power as when I one legged slam a hammer into the ground, but directed more back and out.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[clean-slate]

Thanks for the recs.

I recorded myself attempting the Bow n Arrow drill because of all of the drills it felt the most natural.

https://youtu.be/KT55xmaEXDs

Do you have any feedback for this drill? About a minute in I changed my foot placement a bit and felt like I got more leverage. Also, it's natural for my plant to bend at the knee of my plant in this drill, correct?

 

[sidewinder22]

Yes plant knee will bend in the drill. Your feet need to be more inline with each other and the stick in the drill. Your stance is too staggered or diagonal to the stick.

 

[clean-slate]

rear foot weight shift

I think I've recently had an epiphany…

I've been really experimenting/thinking about the backhand swing as an action of loading and unloading your hip.

I've added a little bit of distance just by thinking of the backhand throw as a swing rather than a elbow jab (I.e hammer toss drill.) But it wasn't getting that much more.

I kept trying to find that elusive feeling of my body getting "loaded" so that it could getting loaded like a spring and then explosively uncoil in the swing. I could feel the right lat connect to my left hip, but it was like there was no stretch.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the source of the tension (pulling your lat chain taut) is from having your rear foot planted in the backswing? Because it naturally creates a tension that wants to unwind itself. You can really feel a stretch when your rear foot has your weight and you coil your backswing backward.

This feeling also matches in line with the "butt facing target" that most pros do.

What I think I was doing was trying leverage after rear foot plant was finished, creating no rubber band effect.

I practiced the backswing with my weight on rear foot, and really felt a significant stretch.