Re-doing my form, stand still putting, critique welcome.

[danostrowski]

My original thread is here, which garnered comments like this:

Terrible footwork, balance, timing, weight transfer.

So I am going to try to document my progress in recreating my form in this thread, hopefully, but it might get too old, like the other one, and stop letting me post.

I don't get out much to practice or play, but I've been out practicing about 4 times since the video above, and I've played about 2-3 rounds at Golden Gate park.

Today I went out and practice and finally disc'ed down completely, throwing only putters (Magnets, Aviars, Ions, Anodes and Wizards.)

I focused on:

• Late arm acceleration
• Weight transfer
• Extending my left shoulder back to open up my stance and get reach back
• Keeping my palm facing my body as long as possible during the throw, to have a "tomahawk" effect

I was throwing up hill and with a tail wind that kept batting down my throws, but I got ~220-250 feet on average.

Things I think I'm still doing wrong include:

• In an attempt to keep the disc flat, I may still be releasing anhyzer a bit
• My weight transfer is still not great
• Weird release angle sometimes at the apex of my throw (but not off angle torque, I experienced no flutter)

Here's a sample of my practice, I'd love to hear if I'm on the right track with this kind of practice or if I'm doing something bad that I haven't realized, yet.

 

[KniceZ]

Lead more with you hips and get more weight shifted to your front leg.

 

[danostrowski]

Lead more with you hips and get more weight shifted to your front leg.

Definitely going to work on that, I was focusing so much on my shoulder and the arm acceleration I forgot the hips.

Though, I'll have to be careful to work it in better, so many moving parts I'm trying to keep track of, now. Re-learning everything sucks.

My hips are moving, by the way, it's just I'm so fat it's hard to see.

 

[teemkey]

You should push off your rear foot and let the natural rotation of your body pull the foot at least parallel with your front foot. You might tend to anhyzer more at first while adjusting to the greater weight transfer. To counteract that, make sure you keep your head down.

Emulate Shoestring.

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks a bit better, but hips and feet are spinning out and throwing from open stance. Move the left hip laterally targetward in the backswing so you turn the right hip/shoulder further back and close up your stance right heel up facing the target then begin the weight shift to the right heel then throw check Dion around 3-4min.

 

[Jesterian]

Step into that shot, son. Pick up your front foot, and step onto it as you throw. This will give you a feel for driving weight shift, and also will give you a feel for how to weight shift without stepping and incorporate it into your shot.

 

[danostrowski]

So I went out today, didn't take any video.

Kept my forward foot out, often in the air, and stepped down and into the shot. I focused on activating the same muscles on my left foot that I do in a baseball swing stance on my right leg (buttocks, thigh, calf.)

Pushing down and out with the hips feels good when I nail it. Really good. Unfortunately, I'm still only throwing about 250' from a standstill with my putters, but I think that's because my focus on late stage arm acceleration and good weight transfer isn't meshing yet. I only threw like 40-50 shots, I need more practice.

I think I'm going to get this, though. I'd like to consistently be throwing these putters from a stand still to about 275' before I start adding back in the x-step.

 

[danostrowski]

Oh! Also noticed I need to have my rear foot slightly off angle with target, behind me. So that helps.

 

[danostrowski]

Went out to throw putters today. I think I went out with too much crap in my head. My form was totally haphazard for the first like 45 minutes of practice.

Eventually I tried to simplify what I was thinking about and settled on basically this:

On the plus side, my distance was pretty consistent towards the last 45 minutes or so and I was throwing 240-270ft... but my aim was in about a 90 degree arc, so a little unreliable.

Here's some footage:



My grip's also off a bit, I tend to still release anhyzer.

My balance towards the end of the throw is totally horrendous but I'm not sure how I'm going to fix that in a manageable way.

I have a lot to work on, but I think I need to just keep a simple routine in mind for next practice round and just build a little muscle memory, even if some of it needs to be tweaked.

If I try to think about stuff like "Hogan's Power Move" and "Painting the Wall" and activating the right muscles and blah blah blah... I'm just getting mixed up.

I think I need to get something that's reasonable and just tweak it.

 

[danostrowski]

I should rephrase because it sounds like I don't appreciate the critiques I've gotten and that's not true.

I just mean... I'm watching the videos provided and listening to the advice, I just need to break it down into manageable chunks or I get totally disjointed. I need to be able to focus on one or two things at a time during the swing or my practice starts to feel useless.

 

[ranger]

I know what you're talking about. It's hard to juggle all the info at the same time.


I'm not qualified to advise but is the reach back too far in the third pic? are you leaning back a bit too much?

 

[fasteddy8170]

You have to remember that you're not going to master any of these new mechanics for a long time. In fact, it may never happen depending on how much time in your life you want to devote to it. All you can do is try, and be happy with whatever improvements occur.

I think you have to determine are the MOST wrong things about your motion--what are those mistakes you're making that are completely killing your play. For me, and this started well before I started my thread or did any filming, I determined I was starting to move the disc forward before my front foot ever touched the ground--I was throwing a disc like pitching a baseball. It was no use working on anything else as long as that huge mistake was part of my form. So, I set out to correct it. And I did. From there, the next big problem I had was "getting over on the disc"--meaning I had this bad problem of discs anhyzering when i didn't want them to. In tourney play it was absolutely killing me. Well, now I know why that happens. Granted, it still happens once in a while but I know how to correct it.

So, for you, what are the couple big things that are killing your accuracy? Don't worry about power because it will come. Put another way: You can play well throwing short and accurate ; you can't play if the discs are going left, then right, right, then left, etc.

Once that's determined, you work on those couple problems over and over. And as you see progress, you can start to fix the smaller problems. Because here's a truth about playing: on 90% of the courses out there, if you can throw about 300ft. accurately with just a one step throw--no x-step, etc., you're going to play very well . . . and the other players are gonna be way impressed. So, make your first big goal throwing mechanically sound with just one step. That will allow you to play in clubs and tournies, and it will give you the mental boost to move to the x-step and further.

 

[danostrowski]

I think you have to determine are the MOST wrong things about your motion--what are those mistakes you're making that are completely killing your play.

Yeah, that's basically how I think I have to approach this.

I'm not qualified to advise but is the reach back too far in the third pic? are you leaning back a bit too much?

Maybe.

Here's my stand still vs Dion's run through (I couldn't really find one of Dion doing an actual stand still shot.)

You'll notice right away, my head isn't as turned as his and my left shoulder clearly is not as far towards the target as his. He's a bit straighter than I, his leading foot is more turned than mine, etc.

If my reach back is too far, I think it's a timing issue with how I'm picking up my foot and reaching back. I think I might start reaching back too early.

Also, clearly I need to get a bit more fluidity and spring in the reach back and release. (In my defense, I'd been throwing for about an hour and fifteen at this point, but still.)

Also, as I suspected, my arm is a bit higher when reached back than Dion's.



EDIT: The other thing I've been thinking about is that the "Hogan's Power Move" tends to move me back on my heels... unless I move my center of gravity kind of downward. Lifting the leg and planting it forward seems to kind of do the Hogan move on it's own (rolling my hips the same way), but that's just kind of me doing it in the bedroom. I'd like to do a behind video where I see what my hips are doing from that angle when I lift/drop the foot.

 

[sidewinder22]

You need to turn the hips and shoulders further back and shoulder/arm lower into your center of gravity. Keep some flex in the rear knee and hips which will change your center of gravity and stack. It looks like you are trying to shift your weight from the front, instead of from behind you. Your rear knee is flying past the front knee, it should finish behind the front knee.

 

[danostrowski]

You need to turn the hips and shoulders further back and shoulder/arm lower into your center of gravity. Keep some flex in the rear knee and hips which will change your center of gravity and stack. It looks like you are trying to shift your weight from the front, instead of from behind you. Your rear knee is flying past the front knee, it should finish behind the front knee.

Yeah, I think this is all correct.

I was kind of messed up by something I think you (or someone?) said in another thread where you were responding to someone else and saying to not push from your knee? But I think you have to involve your knees (as well as foot/calf) in the push. I think I just misunderstood what was being said and it messed my head up at the beginning of this practice.

When I think about how I pitch a baseball and how I swing a baseball, it's all about loading that back leg and dropping low into the center of gravity and I think I need to remember that here.

Definitely was letting the front foot drive my weight shift instead of loading the back leg and pushing down/forward. Doing it correctly stops that leg flying forward, as you point out (I can tell just doing it in my living room.)


Man, I want to go practice right now, but my glutes are really sore! :doh:


Thanks, as always, for the replies, everyone! I will get this.

 

[fasteddy8170]

danostrowski, that was in my thread where sidewinder22 talked about pushing with the back leg. It may be on the second or third page of that thread. What I was asking about was the front heel and how it comes down. The mistake I was making was I thought the heel came down due to being pushed. It doesn't. Instead, it comes down due to gravity. If you watch those Shawn Clement videos, you know what I mean.

What I was doing was pushing with the rear leg and it was causing me to roll over the front side of my front foot. You don't want to do that.

 

[ranger]

someone help me with the rear leg push.

Does it exist or do the hips move everything

 

[ranger]

You need to turn the hips and shoulders further back and shoulder/arm lower into your center of gravity. Keep some flex in the rear knee and hips which will change your center of gravity and stack. It looks like you are trying to shift your weight from the front, instead of from behind you. Your rear knee is flying past the front knee, it should finish behind the front knee.

How far back?


If you were to put a stick across the back ofthe shoulders, what would it look like? Should the shoulders point to the side of the tee box?

 

[sidewinder22]

someone help me with the rear leg push.

Does it exist or do the hips move everything

It exists, but shouldn't happen until you brace your weight on the front leg. Most of y'all push before your weight is braced on the front leg. It's fall, brace, then push.

 

[sidewinder22]

How far back?


If you were to put a stick across the back ofthe shoulders, what would it look like? Should the shoulders point to the side of the tee box?

Hips around 30 degrees like /, and shoulders like 60-90 degrees further back like \_. You can see in that pic of dan vs dion that dion's front foot and knee are rotated back much further giving him a more upright posture with much more shoulder turn. Also the knee bend in the rear knee is crucial there so Dion is loaded into the rear hip (see the creases in the shorts), where Dan's rear knee is straight and has no creases in the pants so there's really nothing loaded into the rear hip.