Rules question

[bthoma1]

I was playing with a group during a doubles tournament and this team called that their lie was unplayable, and said they could move it to where they wanted cause of a rule.
Sounds pretty scetchy and if it is a rule can someone please point me in that direction.
By the way the shot wasn't O.B. or anywhere close to that, just a bad lie.

 

[roadtripstuff]

I think that would at the very least have a stroke penalty along with it. I guess it really depends on what the lie actually was, or rather why was it a problem for them?

 

[bthoma1]

I think that would at the very least have a stroke penalty along with it. I guess it really depends on what the lie actually was, or rather why was it a problem for them?

They said it was unplayable

 

[Dave Walters]

In a doubles format that should force them to take the other players lie.

 

[scarpfish]

They can move backwards on the line of play or shoot again from their previous lie. Either option costs them a stroke.

 

[mashnut]

Unless they're in an obstacle designated for casual relief by the td, then they get limited free relief from it.

 

[bthoma1]

They can move backwards on the line of play or shoot again from their previous lie. Either option costs them a stroke.

ok but either way it's a stroke? Cause someone was saying in the rules it's not, I was pretty sure he was full of BS.

Oh and their partners shot was worse.

Does anyone know where this says in the rule(about the stroke penalty)

 

[Dave Walters]

ok but either way it's a stroke? Cause someone was saying in the rules it's not, I was pretty sure he was full of BS.

Oh and their partners shot was worse.

Does anyone know where this says in the rule(about the stroke penalty)

Sounds stupid to take a stroke and just not play from the other players lie. So imo its a bad call on the teams part.

If they chose to take the unplayable lie and move it. I would make them take a stroke plus only be able to move it backwards along the line of play

 

[12StonesScott]

They were wrong under the 2010 rules; under those, a player may declare any lie unplayable, and take relief up to 5 meters behind the lie on the line of play with a one-stroke penalty. As has been pointed out, if the TD had previously declared the area a "casual obstacle", then they could take relief up to 5m behind the lie on the line of play without penalty. Under no circumstances could they relocate their lie to "anywhere they want".

One of the rules changes for 2011 is that there is no longer any unplayable lie rule. The only option now available, unless they are on a casual obstacle, is the optional rethrow -- rethrow from the previous lie with a one-throw penalty.

 

[Giv'r]

This is the rule:

803.05 B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are in the stance or run-up area: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round. The player must first attempt to remove the obstacle. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the hole, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie, as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official (unless greater casual relief is announced by the director).

If they moved it more than 5 meters or not on the line of play then it would be a stroke. Of course the majority of the group has to agree on the move.

 

[Cgkdisc]

There is no Unplayable Lie rule any more. It's been renamed Optional Rethrow which you may take after any throw. It costs a 1-throw penalty and you return to throw from the lie you just threw from (also counting that original poor throw).

 

[12StonesScott]

This is the rule:

803.05 B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are in the stance or run-up area: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round. The player must first attempt to remove the obstacle. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the hole, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie, as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official (unless greater casual relief is announced by the director).

If they moved it more than 5 meters or not on the line of play then it would be a stroke. Of course the majority of the group has to agree on the move.

But that's only the case for the specific situations mentioned in the rule, including "any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round". If the TD hadn't made any such designation beforehand of the area in which their disc rested, and it's not one of the situations explicitly mentioned, they can't use the casual relief rule, so it's rethrow from previous lie plus one penalty stroke.

 

[scarpfish]

Now I know why I couldn't find the Unplayable Lie rule.

I just know I'm going to see an incident regarding this sometime this year.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The key point in the OP situation is that any relief they took would have cost a one throw penalty (no indication it was in a casual relief area) making the other player's throw likely a more desirable choice unless it was OB.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Now I know why I couldn't find the Unplayable Lie rule.

At least it's in the same spot and number in the rulebook.

 

[Giv'r]

The key point in the OP situation is that any relief they took would have cost a one throw penalty (no indication it was in a casual relief area) making the other player's throw likely a more desirable choice unless it was OB.

You're right. There was no indication that it was in a casual relief area. Maybe the OP can enlighten us on the reason these guys thought that their lie was unplayable in the first place. I've never even thought of using that rule although I've been in many a tight place.

 

[jongoff09]

I was told that in a recent tournament, the TD said that the new rules said that anyone that throws into thick brush or any place where it is tough to get a stance, the player can move the lie 5 m straight back with no penalty. I didn't play in the tournament so I did not hear that, but that is not true from what I understand. Am I wrong?

Regardless, I am going to try to get verification from another source on whether that was said.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Players are allowed casual relief from brush piles that are comprised of dead logs, branches and twigs, but not living foliage or dead trees with branches that are still standing.

 

[bthoma1]

You're right. There was no indication that it was in a casual relief area. Maybe the OP can enlighten us on the reason these guys thought that their lie was unplayable in the first place. I've never even thought of using that rule although I've been in many a tight place.

Both players throw their drive and both shank it far to the right.
Both in the rough, almost identical throws but one was "better"
They preceded to take the best throw, move it out of the "unplayabe" area and shoot from there, without taking a stroke.
And like most of you pointed out, I thought if you moved it you get a stroke. Or and either way this happened in 2011

 

[Giv'r]

Both players throw their drive and both shank it far to the right.
Both in the rough, almost identical throws but one was "better"
They preceded to take the best throw, move it out of the "unplayabe" area and shoot from there, without taking a stroke.
And like most of you pointed out, I thought if you moved it you get a stroke. Or and either way this happened in 2011

How "rough" was the rough? From that description they should have taken at least a stroke for sure. Could even be a courtesy violation. I would say that a lie is very, very rarely "unplayable" even though that word doesn't even matter anymore with the rule changes.