Play from wrong disc then can't find correct disc

[Cgkdisc]

even though this thread should be over, i thought of a similar scenario: same situation as the op, but the thrower(p1) plays from/picks up the wrong disc as his own (looks identical) & puts in his bag. the other thrower (p2) can't find their disc & declares their disc lost then plays from their previous lie (+1stroke). then at some point after finishing this hole, p1 finally realizes he's got the wrong disc. by the rules both players get the 2 stroke misplay penalty (811.f). this seems really unfair to p2 (not only the stroke & distance lost disc penalties, but 2 more for misplay not even their fault). i don't see a way to address this to make it right, it doesn't appear we can use the fairness rule, though it is unfair that p2 is getting the misplay penalty. maybe with an appeal the td could use 801.03d & have p2 replay the hole; it does appear there has to be an incorrect interpretation of the rules for 801.03d to happen and i think i have the interpreted & applied the rules correctly.

P2 doesn't get the lost disc penalty if it's later discovered that their disc was picked up. They have 2 strokes removed from their score. 805.03D

 

[Steve West]

P2 doesn't get the lost disc penalty if it's later discovered that their disc was picked up. They have 2 strokes removed from their score. 805.03D

More precisely, P2 gets the lost disc penalty and later gets two throws removed. P2 also does not get a misplay penalty, because when the disc was declared lost, it was officially lost and correctly played as lost.

 

[chevis]

P2 doesn't get the lost disc penalty if it's later discovered that their disc was picked up. They have 2 strokes removed from their score. 805.03D

oh right, p2 didn't misplay as it is abandoned/lost disc.

 

[araytx]

It's the laddering of offences/penalties that has me confused. I can't quite see the argument for a practice throw:

"A practice throw is any throw that is not made as a competitive attempt to change the lie, except for a throw that is made either to set aside an unused disc or to return a disc to a player and that travels less than five meters in the air. A drop is not a practice throw. Practice throws are disregarded."

It's definitely a competitive attempt to change the lie. It's just done from the wrong lie. For me the issue here is whether the wrong lie and lost disc are part of the same or are different "throws" and should be treated separately. I think I agree with Biscoe in that it is two separate but it just doesn't quite feel right?

It came up as I was answering a Reddit post with an example trying to stop some of the tide of misinformation that was being spouted and then realised I had no idea how this example I was about to give should actually be treated So rather than add to the misinformation I thought I would seek some clarity from a wiser source!

So, your ruling would be one drive plus lost disc penalty plus practice throw thus sitting 3 on the tee? Seems unintentionally excessive punishment but I agree it seems like the correct by-the-book ruling only because the player discovered the error after one extra throw versus holing out before discovering it. A case of unfortunate timing where the rules resulted in a less equitable judgment for essentially the same situation (IMO).

I don't see practice throw as an option. 811.D is clear on that.

There is a difference between making a determination and knowing what the rule is. If the card is uncertain about how the rule book applies in a given situation, playing a provisional makes perfect sense.

I think that the odds of a random card having clarity on what the rule is here is roughly nil, because multiple highly knowledgeable people in this thread are unclear, or in disagreement, about what the rule is.

As to application of the rules, what would happen if the disc was subsequently found, but found OB? Would both the OB stroke and the misplay stroke apply? I think it's the same principle, so I think the lost disc element here is making things more complex than they seem.

If they are not sure about the rule in the scenario you positioned, that sounds to me that the group is agreeing that playing a provisional will save time.

801.02.H: A throw or an action that is subject to penalty under more than one rule is played under the rule that results in the most penalty throws; or, among rules that call for an equal number of penalty throws, the rule that was first violated.

Your drive was lost. Your misplay was your 2nd throw. Those are two separate throws, so they get their own separate penalties.

Kinda what I see. The player threw from an incorrect lie. [Misplay under 811 F.1.b.= one-throw penalty added to score at the end of the hole]. The correct lie is the outcome of the original throw. [Actions -- Begin looking for correct disc, and after all have joined start the clock. If after 3 minutes it is not found the disc is declared lost. Go back to previous lie throwing with one throw added for the lost disc. The MisPlay penalty is added at the end of the hole.]



​Note I agree with those telling Chuck you can't intentionally continue. That's like intentionally skipping that long wooded par 4 I carded a 9 and 10 on the two previous rounds, so I'll only get an 8 this round.