[Mids] Slower Midranges

[aphilso1]

A lot of good suggestions already. I'd like to echo the recommendations for you to test out some modern throwing putters, due to your preferences for:

a) relatively flat, shallow discs with small or no bead
b) slower molds that are easier to get up to speed

These two preferences are basically contradictory, since making a disc flatter and shallower will also make it faster. So to drop the disc back down in speed, you need to introduce another variable...which likely means shrinking the diameter a bit.

So what do you get if you take a modern, sleek throwing mid and shrink the diameter? Someone who knows more about physics can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the answer is that you now have a modern, sleek throwing putter.

I'd start with trying out the Envy and Proxy. They are basically the gold standard when it comes to driving putters, as both can handle more wind and torque than you'd expect from a putter and they go very far. They also seem to like being thrown on a slightly lower line than most putters, just like mids do. They really aren't the floaty/glidey discs that most people think of when they think of putters. If those don't work out for you, Innova's Stud and Colt combo is also very good, as well as the Westside Maiden and Lat64 Pure.

Lastly, I'd recommend dusting off that old Meteor you mentioned. Don't underestimate the value of understable discs on days where you're struggling to get discs up to speed. Understable molds can be lazers if underpowered.

 

[Siriusbomb]

Everything seems to be leaning more toward speed these days. Instead of 4-speed midranges, 7-speed fairways, and 9-speed distance drivers, it's 5- and 6-speed mids, 8- and 9-speed fairways, and 13- and 14-speed distance.

Going along with this, people are throwing faster putters now, and throwing them for serious distance. Maybe try a 3-speed Luna, Envy, or Pure - they really do go about as far as my Rocs.

 

[RebelZero]

I remember seeing that in the bag video and being super impressed. I really dig Philo and his game. However, I don't have the arm for Destroyers. And I don't play enough to cycle discs. He's freaking awesome though. And seems like a very cool dude.

 

[midairmatthew]

I'm really digging the MD for this. It holds any angle you put it on really well. It doesn't take "fast mid-range" velocity to get it to flip up flat. And it doesn't want to glide as far as a Comet, so it's easy to range.

 

[azplaya25]

I started playing over ten years ago and then got out of it for a while. Over the last 5 years I've jumped back in. Back in the day, I usually threw Buzzzes for main midranges, complementing them with Meteors when I needed US shots.

When I got back into disc golf, Trilogy was making a big splash. I've always been sort of addicted to plastic, so I got a bunch of their stuff, some of which has stayed in the bag for years.

Verdicts, Truths, and Fuses have been the core of my midrange lineup. After throwing Buzzzes for so long, those discs felt very similar but they were faster. My Emac Truth goes damn near as far as my fairways.

Lately, this has evolved into a problem. I'm having trouble ranging faster midranges and, as I'm "enjoying" my late 40s, sometimes I have issues getting them up to speed. The arm ain't what it used to be.

I've always thrown slower discs well. When I got on a Roc just right, it was always money. But I never liked the feel of it. The bead was too big and the dome threw me off. Eventually, I realized the feel of flatter discs with lower profiles was very comfortable for me. Hence the Verdict, Truth, and Fuse. Pretty flat, low-profile discs and the beads were either micro or absent.

But now I feel maybe I should transition to some slower midranges to get back into the sweet spot (and give my old arm a break). I've been loving Suspects for the last couple years but I use them more for approach shots than anything else.

Any advice on this? Everything seems to be leaning more toward speed these days. Instead of 4-speed midranges, 7-speed fairways, and 9-speed distance drivers, it's 5- and 6-speed mids, 8- and 9-speed fairways, and 13- and 14-speed distance. I don't carry anything over 9-speed because that's my max.

I just got a Wasp and a Comet in the mail today. The bead on the Wasp doesn't seem to bother me so maybe it's dome I really don't like. The Wasp is pretty flat so it feels comfy.

The Comet also has a bead but it's much more domey. Doesn't feel as good in my hand.

I still have several Buzzzes, which still feel great in my hand, but the Buzzz is certainly more driver-like. It may not be as fast as a Truth but it's pretty speedy.

What sort of combo sounds good for slow-throwing?

Just thought of one disc I used the throw but don't anymore since I switched to rocs: Star Coyote. Its beadless and glidey, really easy to throw at low power. I'd actually be willing to trade it if you have some dx rocs you want to part ways with


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[azplaya25]

I remember seeing that in the bag video and being super impressed. I really dig Philo and his game. However, I don't have the arm for Destroyers. And I don't play enough to cycle discs. He's freaking awesome though. And seems like a very cool dude.

Yeah I don't have the arm for destroyers either. In fact, I'd guess about 70% of people who throw destroyers don't have the arm for destroyers lol. I've found a version of the philo bag that's better for noodle arms
Dx Aviars
DX Rocs
DX Eagles
DX Banshees

They all beat in pretty quick and cover lots of different shots


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[SaROCaM]

In fact, I'd guess about 70% of people who throw destroyers don't have the arm for destroyers lol.

Probably a much higher number. Just yesterday a local new player was asking for advice and immediately someone suggested that a Destroyer would be a good beginner driver. I'm sure this happens daily all over the place. Destroyer is at the top of the sales lists.

Still I figure if getting a Destroyer makes people happy to throw, then why not. Hopefully someone introduces them to Roadrunners/Sidewinders though.

 

[RebelZero]

What about the Lat 64 Compass? It's listed as a speed 5 but I've read some reviews that say it has a blunt nose that makes it slower than that. No bead. Not too shallow, not too deep.

Anyone have experience with these?

 

[eyewreck]

Someone earlier said the Gatekeeper, that was my immediate thought when I saw what you were looking for. Flat, beadless, relatively shallow, a little slower than other mids out there, and my favorite part of it so far is its versatility despite its fade. I can get it to hold a line with 200 feet of power and it behaves mostly the same as a full rip.

 

[RebelZero]

Just thought of one disc I used the throw but don't anymore since I switched to rocs: Star Coyote. Its beadless and glidey, really easy to throw at low power. I'd actually be willing to trade it if you have some dx rocs you want to part ways with

I actually don't have any DX Rocs right now.

Someone earlier said the Gatekeeper, that was my immediate thought when I saw what you were looking for. Flat, beadless, relatively shallow, a little slower than other mids out there, and my favorite part of it so far is its versatility despite its fade. I can get it to hold a line with 200 feet of power and it behaves mostly the same as a full rip.

Just got my Gatekeeper in the mailbox. 172 Tournament plastic. Looking forward to trying it out.

 

[Blobfish]

Since you like the verdict, you might consider a zone if you want a tweener os disc. I would also recommend the ringer gt in jawbreaker. It has a touch more glide than a rhyno, feels the same in hand (has a raised thumb track) and the bead is not too pronounced. For what it's worth, I love the flight of a comet but absolutely hate the feel of it so I carry a (beadless) sol which matches up a lot better with how my other discs feel.

 

[adb83]

There are flat-top KC Pro Rocs out there and they feel amazing. The dome is what makes the Roc, or other beaded mids, feel uncomfortable to me.

 

[RebelZero]

Welp, I went out to the course today and got myself enmeshed in a nasty love triangle. I'm now involved with a Gatekeeper and a Compass. It could get messy.

The Gatekeeper is a 172 Tourney and the Compass is a 173 Opto. They both feel very similar in the hand: flattish with a slight dome, not too deep or too shallow, and no bead.

And they both flew like magic. A touch slower than a Truth or Buzzz and so freaking straight with a nice little fade. The fade is enough to carve great lines but they're also straight enough to almost be lasers if I keep them lower.

I parked 3 holes with them and honestly, they're so similar for me I don't know which to keep.

They're definitely easier to range than my Emac Truth. And paired with my Suspects, I feel either one would be money.

As for the US slot, that's still up for grabs. I threw a Comet several times and I really hate the feel. It's like a trash can lid. The Meteor is still in contention. I still dig the Fuse, too but it may be a little faster. It's a finesse disc, though so it could still work.

 

[aphilso1]

They're definitely easier to range than my Emac Truth.

I know you mentioned this in your initial thread, but apparently I glazed over it. Why are you trying to "range" your midranges? Do you use them as your approach discs instead of putters?

 

[RebelZero]

I usually approach with Suspects or Judges. But the majority of holes at my local courses are par 3s that need a fairway driver or midrange from the tee. I get almost fairway distance from the Truth, which makes it harder to range. I've found slower mids are easier for me to work with since they don't infringe on fairway driver territory.

And for long approaches out of my Suspect range, a slower mid is also better for me. Again, since the Truth is so speedy, sometimes I cruise past the basket.

I started throwing Suspects and Judges really well in the last couple years. The more adept I get with those slower discs, the harder time I have with faster mids. As I get older, my whole game has slowed down.

 

[aphilso1]

I usually approach with Suspects or Judges. But the majority of holes at my local courses are par 3s that need a fairway driver or midrange from the tee. I get almost fairway distance from the Truth, which makes it harder to range. I've found slower mids are easier for me to work with since they don't infringe on fairway driver territory.

And for long approaches out of my Suspect range, a slower mid is also better for me. Again, since the Truth is so speedy, sometimes I cruise past the basket.

I started throwing Suspects and Judges really well in the last couple years. The more adept I get with those slower discs, the harder time I have with faster mids. As I get older, my whole game has slowed down.

That makes sense. I thought that by "range" you meant you were trying to throw mids on shots like a 150' approach, which is much easier to do with a putter.

I do throw Emacs and Judges also, and personally I feel like a long driving putter (Proxy) fits the gap very nicely. Proxy is one of those disc that I try to take out of my bag for a while in order to minimize molds, but I always end up missing it and putting it back in. Hopefully your slow mid experience works out for you, but if not you should definitely give an Envy or Proxy a whirl. Even though they are classified as putters, they are very long to the point that I don't like approaching with them.

 

[RebelZero]

I've got an Opto Pure coming in the mail. That's been suggested to me several times. But, like you, I try to keep the molds down. My Lucid Judge is great for neutral approaches and drives and for anything that needs more fade, the Suspect is perfect. I carry 4 Judges and 3 Suspects.

Not sure if I'll have a use for the Pure or not, especially since the Gatekeeper is rocking my world for slower midrange. I shot my 2nd best round ever today, partly because the Gatekeeper has been money off the tee. I just keep getting to the basket with relative ease. A Pure may just complicate things.

 

[Casey 1988]

Just to add a little bit of insight on this:

The bead on older, slower mids was to slow the speed of the disc wearing out in DX plastic (which is what they were designed for). So, with the introduction of premium plastics, beads became less necessary - so started the era of the Buzzz. Of course, there are still modern mids with beads: wasp, bard, vector, ghost (basically just a roc), warrior, etc...they are out there. This actually makes me realize how little I know about modern midranges, if that's all I can name off the top of my head...

You could just get a comet and call it a day :thmbup:

Yes but, The Shark has been out since 1989 and it is a popular midrange option among older longtime players who did not like the bead and/or Shape of the ROC. Also is the Stingray for a disc that flies US and is sans bead in 1987 at the same day as the ROC. Stingray Was in one of the Innova Starter sets, the Star one before the company stopped all but the DX one.

You Forgot the Compass as a modern ROC like disc.

Oh I do agree in that the bead does help with the wear of a disc in baseline plastics. This is a reason a few early Drivers/Fairway drivers had a bead on the mold, almost none of the molds are in production anymore part to the premium plastics and part to the odd feel of these discs causing players to not want to play with the mold.

 

[Alexplz]

Slower mids just aren't really in vogue. My favorites include the Roc, the Comet, and the... well really there aren't a lot of readily available speed-4 options these days it would seem, or not ones I've tried.

I would probably prefer a flippy speed-4 over the glut of US options at speed 5. Give me something like:

4 / 5 / -3 / 1

I just want a mid that turns over reliably out of the box that doesn't tend to get away from you thanks to excessive speed and glide. Skip the crazy angular wings and shallow rims.

Mirage and Sol are pretty close, but slower and shallow AF.

To OP - check out the MVP throwing putters for sure. Specifically the Proxy, along with all the other Envy clones they make.

 

[BrotherDave]

The Theory would have been a good slower Fuse recommendation but it's OOPed for some reason. The Alias was also OOP I think and it was also a slower, more traditional midrange (would be in the same convo with the Compass and Gatekeeper).

The Pine and Bard are both underrated mids too. Bard has a bead but is fairly flattish, good OS mid. The Qms is always a great choice. The Coyote is a good neutral mid that's been resurrected by Infinite Discs I think (Anubis?).