Time saving provisional.

[ru4por]

Some people's obsession with saving time is odd to me. I'm a fairly quick player and I prefer a fast pace to a round, but I see no reason to prioritize saving time over all else in a tournament. Disc golf isn't a race. The round's going to end when it's going to end. Especially in a shotgun start environment, you can only go as fast as the group in front of you. If you're keeping up with them, then the notion of "saving time" is entirely unnecessary.

The time-saving provisional rule is there as a convenience option, not a requirement.

This is on spot. In addition, the round is going to end with the arrival of the last and slowest group. Getting back to tournament central first does not win anything.....except a longer wait for the second round or awards.

 

[cydisc]

I don't think, based on the wording of the rules, that you can take a provisional until there has been an attempt at making a ruling. Also, it's up to the group to decide whether a provisional throw is warranted, based on an inability to make a ruling as a group.

If I were in the group in this scenario, where the mando object is only 150' away, I probably would balk at an immediate provisional throw, which is essentially a penalty-free practice throw.

 

[cheesethin]

I don't think, based on the wording of the rules, that you can take a provisional until there has been an attempt at making a ruling. Also, it's up to the group to decide whether a provisional throw is warranted, based on an inability to make a ruling as a group.

If I were in the group in this scenario, where the mando object is only 150' away, I probably would balk at an immediate provisional throw, which is essentially a penalty-free practice throw.

There are two different types of provisionals.

One, a time-saving provisional, used when a shot has possibly missed a mando/gone OB/been lost. Its sole purpose is to save the time it takes to go and look and then come back and re-throw if necessary. At the throwers discretion but must have the cards permission.

Two, a ruling-dispute provisional, used when, as it says on the tin, there is a dispute over a ruling.

My OP was about the first type. See this: 809.02

 

[cydisc]

There are two different types of provisionals.

One, a time-saving provisional, used when a shot has possibly missed a mando/gone OB/been lost. Its sole purpose is to save the time it takes to go and look and then come back and re-throw if necessary. At the throwers discretion but must have the cards permission.

Two, a ruling-dispute provisional, used when, as it says on the tin, there is a dispute over a ruling.

My OP was about the first type. See this: 809.02

It's still a group decision, not just the one guy who insisted.

 

[DavidSauls]

Fine line, but it's a group decision only if the player asks to do it. The group can't decide that he must.

 

[araytx]

It's still a group decision, not just the one guy who insisted.

809.02 B.1 (The first type of provisional) states that there are two conditions 1) the status of the disc is unknown (may be lost, missed mando, or OB) [clearly the OP situation meets that condition] and 2) the group agrees the provisional may [my emph] save time.

It is hard for me to see in any of those situations that the group can not say it MAY (not must, but might possibly) save time in this scenario or any similar scenario. In fact, the only scenario where I can see the group disagreeing that it MAY save time, would be if they can clearly see from where they currently are the status of the disc -- like sitting clearly on the sidewalk, or across a boundary in plain sight.

So, while technically you are correct the group should agree, I wouldn't say it's a group "decision", but rather that the thrower can show that he's attempting to save time. In practical applications in my over 13 years of playing, I've never encountered a scenario where the group could legitimately say no.

Fine line, but it's a group decision only if the player asks to do it. The group can't decide that he must.

YES. It's still that the player (thrower) is the one to declare a provisional.

 

[cheesethin]

A provisional is a courteous and considerate thing that you have the option of doing. No one can make you be courteous or considerate if you don't want to.

Thank you for your thoughts.

I think the card should show just as much, if not more, courtesy and consideration to the current thrower, as it's their throw, their game and their choice. And of course, this courtesy is then shown to each player in turn,*when it is their throw.

In the OP scenario the rules don't require me to immediately re-tee, it is just an option. On this occasion I wanted the time to compose myself, as I felt an immediate 2nd shot would also be crappy - on another day I might feel the opposite. (And ignoring for now the impact of someone insisting on a fake rule.) So if it is detrimental to*me to immediately re-tee, I definitely shouldn't do that, as the rules give me that choice. Placing courtesy towards my card mates above courtesy to myself, and rushing into a crappy shot, would be silly, and poor strategy.



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