Two lanes....... ?

[TrebuchetDiscGolf]

WhoaÂ… ok just watched that whole dr Kwon vid. That guy is dope!

Do we think all of the drills in that vid apply readily to our swing??? (Im tempted to say yes)

And for people that know more about ball golf than me: what are the differences in how we want to brace / think about WS in backswing and forward swing / etc / a million other things?

What are the key differences Im likely to overlook?

Also what other vids he is in do I need to watch? Besides all of them…

 

[sidewinder22]

WhoaÂ… ok just watched that whole dr Kwon vid. That guy is dope!

Do we think all of the drills in that vid apply readily to our swing??? (Im tempted to say yes)

And for people that know more about ball golf than me: what are the differences in how we want to brace / think about WS in backswing and forward swing / etc / a million other things?

What are the key differences Im likely to overlook?

Also what other vids he is in do I need to watch? Besides all of them…

For the most part it's the same, we are just in a more closed stance and swinging only lead arm.

Dr. Kwon explaining how vertical motion creates torque.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEUYTYDqGBA&t=35m20s

 

[timothy42b]

sw22 posted this video some time ago, and I just recently watched the whole thing.

(caveat: I love these indepth biomechanics discussions because that's how I think, but really at my level of struggling with basics the applications aren't obvious)



At any rate, he says here that you can or should do proper weight shift, rotation and ground forces, but ........ really you can hit just as far without them. Paraphrasing slightly.

Do you think this applies to disc golf as it does to ball golf, given that we don't have that long club as a lever? Some of what Dan Beto says would imply maybe yes.

 

[Sheep]

I mean three instances of one DGCR thread… and multiple threads with multiple instances. That all amongst my 50 plus tabs running on my ten year old gaming pc.

I am no rookie, Sir.

I have Armchair AADD (american attention-span deficit disorder) just as bad as the next guy…

Okay sir
You have saved face in my book.

 

[Brychanus]

Lol @ Brychanus... Only thing is my eyes are even crazier than Jacks...

So thanks for pointing me to the drive leg thread... The clip Seabass posted is exactly what my method was going for (what Bearheart does in the clip, rear leg continuing forward linearly after the plant) makes sense as his X step deep dive vid is where I got on the two rails footwork train. I don't like that he was doing it there with a knee slam, that seems pretty clearly not good. I'm curious if it can be done with triple extension though. I think it can, Albert Tamm seems more like a 3xtender from what little I've seen of him. I should look again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kol2l-5Sj7M#t=4m55s

But what Brian is doing here does require the WS to drift a bit behind the heel of the plant foot right? Note: This is not what I'm am trying to emulate in my throw anymore, but I would still play with it given infinite time...

Yeah, tons of threads here. I've made good progress on the "Fundamentals" guide this break but of course there's still more to do. Trying to find a compromise between "THROW DISC BETTER" and every interesting concept shared on DGCR is tough. I personally don't think there's any one "best" way to tell the story and I'm learning a lot just by distilling it into a narrative.

There's a big digression about triple extension starting at post 332 in rocking the hips. Holy **** that's a long thread now. I personally stopped using that terminology for some of the reasons raised by Socradeez there & mostly because it's kind of a confusing regarding cause and effect, what's anatomically extending or not, and so on.

On Earhart and the drive leg continuing forward: I think that yes in general you want a lateral progression of the drive leg on a vector toward the main force heading into the plant. It'll swing forward and in a bit differently depending on the player and their hips. E.g., Paul's rear leg swing looks a little different than Paige's which is different than Salonen or Simon etc. None of those throwers are knee-slammers, which is part of why they look a little different than Earhart's drive leg when he was knee slamming. But I think the little dashed right arrow representing the main force heading into the plant should be more or less the direction the rear leg tracks from hip to knee heading into the swing like Paul here (his lower leg looks different than the knee-slammer because he maintains plantar flexion and everts off the drive foot into the plant):

BTW, I think Earhart himself has had trouble making the transition to be driving off the rear foot more like Paul and others. E.g., in the first throw here, Earhart looks like he's getting a little stuck on his rear foot - he doesn't load ideally into his rear hip in the backswing, and then he is reaching too much with his plant foot in this instructional video. Not to pick on him, just pointing out that changing mechanics that fundamentally is often not easy.

 

[Brychanus]

I entered the lower body aspects while working on the Fundamentals project realizing that I wasn't comfortable talking about footwork. The reason is that there are a lot of weird cause & effect relationships between the feet and everything else. I think this is part of what gets players into trouble when they try to take any one piece of well-intentioned footwork advice too literally and often out of context. They end up with screwy posture and hip mechanics. The idea that it's "just like walking" doesn't click for them because it's certainly an exotic kind of walk. So I am being especially careful about that topic.

The following is not a fix all, but might help someone understand connections between things we share around here, including the "two lanes" concept and footwork in general.

Something that has really helped me understand what the feet should be doing in general is that they are essentially just little diagonal shifts moving down the line as you stride or hop - however your body best achieves that. There does seem to be a relationship between the desired release angle at the hit and the trajectory along the tee e.g. as in SW's breakdown of Drew. I do not think it is a coincidence, and it has to do with how the body works to move down the line and achieve a braced tilt in proper posture:

I really like throwing at about 20 degrees for a hyzerflip whenever I can. Throwing a Comet on that angle is my favorite shot in disc golf.

So today I experimented and found that if I try to force the lanes or angle my feet take down the line, I get weaker and lower quality swings. I'm out of posture.

If instead I just work back from the hit:

my feet find the ~20 degree line moving back forward since that's the way they move to get back forward to the hit. In fact, as soon as I stopped worrying about the feet, my body ended up traveling down the line more or less on the "correct" angle. I also found this very interesting because my body is very different than Drew's, but in sum, the way I move to throw on this angle is slowly becoming very similar to his at the hit.

Why is this "suddenly" becoming easier for me?

I have been working a lot on my diagonal shift, swivel stairs action, and shifting and dropping off the rear side rather than extending at the rear knee. There have been a ton of diagonal standstills packed into the past month - lots of woods golf scrambles and drives. As the release point for my shots starts to gradually get more inside my posture, my body "knows" that it needs to modify where my feet go to end up at that release point. Messing around with extremes and angles in a diagonal shift helps the body sample where it needs to go to achieve the goal.

So look for the relationship between ladder agility & swivel stairs and SW's extreme diagonal stance shot mechanics here. It's the same thing. Play around (or "a round" or more, hyuk) with it.

 

[Brychanus]

^Somehow the final gif turned into a stillframe.

 

[drk_evns]

I'm not gonna really answer into the points of individual things here, but in general.

The idea that Josh pushed in the video about shot visualization and "backing down the track" is completely false.
Could there be players out there doing it that way? Yes, maybe a few.
Players who do stand at the Tee pad end and look down their shot.
Chris Dickerson.
But he will also usually do a practice swing or 2 as well.

It's vastly important to visualize your apex, angles and target line. How you do this is up to you as the player.

But considering we rarely move in the line of which we are throwing, this sort of shoots down the idea he's presenting.

Your target might be in line with the tee pad edge, per say, but we don't walk down the edge of the tee pad, for a RHBH throw, you'll usually move from the back right to the left front of the tee pad over the course of the steps. Not along the right edge the whole way.

Especially when it comes to power throws, Pro's stagger their direction to the target more aggressively to push more weight forward into their plant in the target direction as well as forward in their stance for their stagger.

This caught my attention. I definitely align my run up to the line as opposed to the teepad.

Consciously I just adjust my torso and arm to the angle I want the disc on and run up the direction I want it to come out. Naturally this ends up being right to left on the teepad and vice-versa for hyzer, but I'm almost always aiming aligned to my line. Seems to work quite well.

I also think it's smart to visualize your line from the end of the pad (or wherever your plant will be). Often the change in perspective is enough to change the aiming point in a significant way.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

I view the two lines as parallel railroad tracks rather than the conical that you illustrate. If you look at Macbeth his arm line is parallel to his foot line as well.

 

[Brychanus]

I view the two lines as parallel railroad tracks rather than the conical that you illustrate. If you look at Macbeth his arm line is parallel to his foot line as well.

By "conical" do you mean the yellow lines in the Gibson image? I think SW used that to represent the direction of the "tee" (top line) and the direction of Gibson's overall body movement (bottom line), not two lanes.

If so, I redid the figure with the white dashed lines representing the "two lanes," the yellow lines showing the relative position of the "tee," and the pinkish line showing the avg. body mass movement (which is moving as part of the diagonal shift per the can of worms I opened up here). What I was talking about in post 46 here) is why the average movement of the 20-degree pink line and 20-degree hyzer release occur naturally with good mechanics in that context. Learning to diagonal shift, which is what naturally moves you down in the desired pattern:

 

[Brychanus]

Had more fun, CoG is sinusoidally snaking moving down the line like SocraDeez pointed out. Somewhat like:

 

[navel]

There is only one lane. Front heel, back knee, neck. Keep it in line. No need to worry about the rest if that's balanced.

 

[Brychanus]

There is only one lane. Front heel, back knee, neck. Keep it in line. No need to worry about the rest if that's balanced.

This reminded me of the discussion a while back in my form thread related to this topic. Rather than try to pull out one thing in particular, I'm linking the back and forth in these three posts since people might find it interesting. I'm also noting that the discussion stopped here after the 3rd post as I kept my personal struggle bus moving, but it certainly could have continued. I'm still not actually entirely sure Navel & SW were disagreeing there in terms of fundamental mechanics as much as emphasis for coaching:

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3860704&postcount=725
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3860704&postcount=726
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3860704&postcount=727

IMO in addition to top-down view, shots like this rear view on PP directly behind them relative to the line their body is moving down the tee (which are somewhat rare) are interesting for this discussion.