USDGC Updates

[oldmandiscer]

Why do some people continue to confuse exceptional athletic performance with 'too easy'? Someone will always be the best and worst in a tournament, both per round, and overall. A couple quick comparisons...

In baseball, some pitchers have pitched perfect games, therefore the strike zone MUST be too big.
Some hitters (though not recently) have hit over .400 in a season, therefore the strike zone is too SMALL. Which is it?
Some hitters have hit 60+ home runs in a season, therefore the outfield walls are too close.
And so on...

Instead of focusing on scores which are clearly outliers, and not within two standard deviations of the mean, I think focusing on averages, medians, and variance of scores provides much more information. But then again, it doesn't support underlying motives does it?

No one should ever shoot 15 under or 18 under par like McBeth did. It delegitimizes the sport and makes it look like an easy game.

 

[lyleoross]

BTW - Both Philo and Nate just said that designers will be impacted by how the course is being played this year. It shouldn't escape notice that overall play is advancing year to year.

Dickerson has 32 birdies out of 40. Hmmm.

 

[lyleoross]

No one should ever shoot 15 under or 18 under par like McBeth did. It delegitimizes the sport and makes it look like an easy game.

This I agree with. But that is still a par problem. it should be acknowledged that Paul is in a place where few other players are. Even if we set par the way that golf does, he'd stilll be way beyond where many other players are.

You will notice, the first time Paul shot 18 down it was on ESPN, the second time, they ignored it. They quickly figured out that it doesn't mean the same thing it does in golf.

Get ready for the nay sayers. You won't win this argument here. It has to be embraced by designers. And some are.

 

[oldmandiscer]

This I agree with. But that is still a par problem. it should be acknowledged that Paul is in a place where few other players are. Even if we set par the way that golf does, he'd stilll be way beyond where many other players are.

You will notice, the first time Paul shot 18 down it was on ESPN, the second time, they ignored it. They quickly figured out that it doesn't mean the same thing it does in golf.

Get ready for the nay sayers. You won't win this argument here. It has to be embraced by designers. And some are.

It's not necessarily a design problem, it's always been a giant basket problem. That and the fact that more and more players are just getting so dang good. Par is a bad score but it shouldn't be.

 

[lyleoross]

It's not necessarily a design problem, it's always been a giant basket problem. That and the fact that more and more players are just getting so dang good. Par is a bad score but it shouldn't be.

I'm not going to discuss basket design or course design. I defer to the experts. I simply agree, 15 or 18 down looks bad.

 

[Jolt]

but what can we do? if you make a Par 3 that players CAN reach, or a Par 4 that CAN be reach in two. . the best player will reach it most of the time. . and then they hit +90% of all C1 putts. . so scores WILL be low.

If you make a Par 3 that the best players can´t reach. . that would be boring to.

As long as the players hit every putt scores will be low

 

[oldmandiscer]

I'm not going to discuss basket design or course design. I defer to the experts. I simply agree, 15 or 18 down looks bad.

I agree, it's to the point of where do you go from here? 19 under par in one round? The game has already been mastered as it currently is played.

 

[Jolt]

GG just went past the basket in two on a 1025ft hole

 

[DiscFifty]

This I agree with. But that is still a par problem.

15 - 18 down shouldn't be an issue for the sport if only 1 player does it per event. If you get several players shooting that well, then it's an obvious par and or design flaw. Once you get to the top 5 or so players, their skill set is way above the others, should par/design be fine turned just for those elite players?

 

[Hampstead]

lol..you're not even watching the broadcast. Too funny...

No, I'm not. Not following it either. Hadn't checked the thread in several days. Checked today, first post I read was you (post 58) complaining about Ian and commentary from a couple days ago. Jump to most recent post at the time and it was you (170) complaining about MPO commentary again. Just thought it was funny.

 

[Jolt]

Simon has thrown 22 throws on hole 17 in just 3rounds!!

 

[teemkey]

If *course* par is set for a 1000 rated player, then Winthrop is doing pretty well with its par 67. Round 1 a 67 was 1003 rated; round 2 a 67 was 997 rated (unofficially).

 

[Dcinmd]

Simon has thrown 22 throws on hole 17 in just 3rounds!!

Technically he probably only throw 14 or 15 shots.

 

[Jolt]

Rickys round so far is wierd. . Bogeyfree -6 . . .with 5 OBs!!

 

[nothinbuttree]

GG just went past the basket in two on a 1025ft hole

Another big basket example.

 

[lyleoross]

I agree, it's to the point of where do you go from here? 19 under par in one round? The game has already been mastered as it currently is played.

I am seeing TDs adjusting their courses and par. If our goal is perfection, well, we've failed. If our goal is to adjust as the talent pool grows, then I commend the leaders in the sport.

 

[sidewinder22]

Rickys round so far is wierd. . Bogeyfree -6 . . .with 5 OBs!!

-8 with 7 OB, wild.

 

[lyleoross]

15 - 18 down shouldn't be an issue for the sport if only 1 player does it per event. If you get several players shooting that well, then it's an obvious par and or design flaw. Once you get to the top 5 or so players, their skill set is way above the others, should par/design be fine turned just for those elite players?

At one point, when I felt more engaged. I took the scores off of specific holes. There are holes out there where the top 25 players get a birdy. Those wholes are flawed IMO.

I am much less worried about this than many at this point. I see too much effort on the part of TDs to make their courses relevant and challenging to think that they aren't aware and aren't working on the issue.

We are in a period of huge growth and change. It seems unlikely that we would fix every problem exactly when it occurs.

 

[sidewinder22]

Par and basket size are not holding the sport back, disc golf is exploding despite "Par looking bad" to a few par sympathizers.

 

[McCready]

It's gonna be really interesting tomorrow in the rain. If it's a constant steady rain it becomes a test of patience and endurance over scoring. Which might play into Dickerson's mental game even more? Can't wait.