I got a chance to throw a couple protos today, and have t say that these things bomb. I threw them in a transitional type plastic, felt kinda champystar. It took me a few throws to get used to the wider rim as I'm a destroyer/hurricane guy, but once I got in a groove, I could ge them to flip up into big S Curve lines. They had really nice glide. I'd put the stability at almost a -2, 2 on the innova scale with a bunch of glide. With some more work, I could easily see myself getting these out 450+ which is just a little farther than my destroyer max.