The 2017 Memorial Presented by Discraft

[frasnow]

lol @ "whining" - and if you saw that we were having a fruitful and honest discussion on there, why not chime in? I gained a good deal of insight from my discussions with all types of people.

Not sure why, but I can't comment on your posts. Must have to be your friend.

How can you suggest not covering the women "From a business perspective" in one Facebook post, and then two days later post about the importance of diversity in media? Diversity doesn't just mean white vs. person of color. Please reread your own post replacing "white" with "male".

Here is part:

The worst part is, we start indoctrinating this into kids before they're old enough to grasp or comprehend it. They don't realize that they're being taught and influenced by this, they can't comprehend that it's "casting decisions" or "just business" behind why a [male] kid gets a role over a [female] one.

 

[Flick Maniac]

In my experience players stop listening to that sort of thing almost immediately- printed materials are where it's at.

*Disclaimer- some players are going to get something wrong no matter what the tournament staff does.

This! So much this! Nothing I hate more than listening through all that "Okay so on Hole 1 everyone know that little scrawny tree at the corner, thats your mando. Now also all the concrete is OB, except the one next to the little pond blah blah blah" for 18 holes when you could have just drawn a map. (or better yet, you did make a map, but STILL insist on the rattle-through) Youre going to remember all the tidbits on 16 2 hours later? Right. Map or clearly written hole specific rules behind the scorecard, boom, theres your 0.02$ "caddy book".

 

[uncle pennybags]

At GBO last year they said that the caddy book is your player meeting for the tourney. They also had mini player meetings for each card before they tee off, just to cover changes and any course specific stuff. I don't know how the Memorial is run, but that seemed to work to me, but I'm not a pro either.

 

[lyleoross]

This! So much this! Nothing I hate more than listening through all that "Okay so on Hole 1 everyone know that little scrawny tree at the corner, thats your mando. Now also all the concrete is OB, except the one next to the little pond blah blah blah" for 18 holes when you could have just drawn a map. (or better yet, you did make a map, but STILL insist on the rattle-through) Youre going to remember all the tidbits on 16 2 hours later? Right. Map or clearly written hole specific rules behind the scorecard, boom, theres your 0.02$ "caddy book".

Yes, but then it's on the player. Simple enough. He she gets stroked for any mistake they make. I'm good with that.

I personally find that the combo works best. You might not remember the specifics of what the TD said, but you remember enough to look carefully.

 

[jsc430]

One thing I will point out. I played a tournament a month ago where the TD Eric Jubin modified the course from years past. He walked us through those changes and why they were made. Then he warned us. TDs need to imitate this style. You can argue it's pedantic, treating players like kids, whatever, but I knew the course.

SUGARLAND SHOWDOWN! LOVE THAT TOURNEY!

Although I haven't played it a couple years:\

 

[spinachd]

Just want to say that showing the FPO shots after the MPO tee shots during live coverage worked well.

 

[Dana]

Everyone got their popcorn ready

 

[Streets]

Everyone got their popcorn ready

opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:

 

[JTacoma03]

Not sure why, but I can't comment on your posts. Must have to be your friend.

How can you suggest not covering the women "From a business perspective" in one Facebook post, and then two days later post about the importance of diversity in media? Diversity doesn't just mean white vs. person of color. Please reread your own post replacing "white" with "male".

Here is part:

Wow. OK then.

First of all this is an apples-to-oranges comparison. Your attempt to quote me out of context is laughable, and shows either your willful ignorance, or that the point goes straight over your head.

My post about diversity in media is discussing how positive and negative stereotypes can be reinforced subconsciously in children, and how those perceptions (which aren't based in reality) stay with those individuals as they grow up, thus affecting their worldview. These stereotypes are systemic, pervading the entire scope of cinema in Hollywood across both genre and time.


Second, my post regarding FPO coverage was about starting a social media-based roundtable discussion about the Catch-22 that I feel we're in. The discussion centers around getting opinions on how to go forward, seeing that the viewership results do not match the hype and rhetoric (that most people would rather watch FPO because that's "their skill level" and the MPO guys are "too good") that has been drummed up on social media. I'm not saying nobody thinks that, but that platform has been greatly exaggerated...not my opinion, but rather analysis based on empirical evidence. Additionally, when adding a new product that the vocal minority has been clamoring for actually cannibalizes the bread and butter product for Tournament Coverage, this now creates a business paradox. Walking the line between altruistic intentions and business sense is very thin and difficult, and I wanted to open up the discussion because I have a very diverse group of friends on Facebook.

I was being open and candid about my hopes vs. reality, and public expectations vs. reality. At no point was I ever whining. That wouldn't even make sense, considering that the opinions would have to come from the very people I would supposedly be whining about (the viewers).

Let's call your post what it is, a pathetic passive-aggressive trolling attempt. If you train yourself to read past 140 characters, you might look again and see the 100+ comment thread offering some very nuanced opinions, which as I stated before were very helpful in sussing out others' honest reactions to GCC coverage.

 

[ranger]

I thoroughly enjoyed all the coverage. Great stuff.

 

[frasnow]

Wow. OK then.

First of all this is an apples-to-oranges comparison. Your attempt to quote me out of context is laughable, and shows either your willful ignorance, or that the point goes straight over your head.

My post about diversity in media is discussing how positive and negative stereotypes can be reinforced subconsciously in children, and how those perceptions (which aren't based in reality) stay with those individuals as they grow up, thus affecting their worldview. These stereotypes are systemic, pervading the entire scope of cinema in Hollywood across both genre and time.


Second, my post regarding FPO coverage was about starting a social media-based roundtable discussion about the Catch-22 that I feel we're in. The discussion centers around getting opinions on how to go forward, seeing that the viewership results do not match the hype and rhetoric (that most people would rather watch FPO because that's "their skill level" and the MPO guys are "too good") that has been drummed up on social media. I'm not saying nobody thinks that, but that platform has been greatly exaggerated...not my opinion, but rather analysis based on empirical evidence. Additionally, when adding a new product that the vocal minority has been clamoring for actually cannibalizes the bread and butter product for Tournament Coverage, this now creates a business paradox. Walking the line between altruistic intentions and business sense is very thin and difficult, and I wanted to open up the discussion because I have a very diverse group of friends on Facebook.

I was being open and candid about my hopes vs. reality, and public expectations vs. reality. At no point was I ever whining. That wouldn't even make sense, considering that the opinions would have to come from the very people I would supposedly be whining about (the viewers).

Let's call your post what it is, a pathetic passive-aggressive trolling attempt. If you train yourself to read past 140 characters, you might look again and see the 100+ comment thread offering some very nuanced opinions, which as I stated before were very helpful in sussing out others' honest reactions to GCC coverage.

I'll admit "whining" was too harsh a word, but I was using it as a way of challenging the question of covering FPO even being asked. Covering FPO shouldn't be a business decision, and is certainly not an "altruistic" gift to the women of our sport. It is the right thing to do for growing the diversity in our sport and teaching our children that women's sports matter. Business decisions like not having a FPO at the first year of the Disc Golf World Tour and the treatment of Val, show disc golf has needs in this area.

You've called me a troll, stupid ("the point goes straight over your head"), and not well read ("read past 140 characters"). If desiring equal treatment for women in our sport is trolling and makes me dumb, so be it.

 

[Jay Dub]

I watched all of round 3 live but missed the final round.
I want to add to those saying this was one of the best live coverage I've watched.
Enjoyed the announcer and the women's round spliced in.

 

[JTacoma03]

I'll admit "whining" was too harsh a word, but I was using it as a way of challenging the question of covering FPO even being asked.

Never asked that question. You're off from the start.

Covering FPO shouldn't be a business decision, and is certainly not an "altruistic" gift to the women of our sport.

Sport is a meritocracy, and covering any division is a business decision, especially when you get to watch for free on the generosity of others and then complain. If MPO wasn't moving the product, MPO wouldn't get the spotlight. It's not malicious or vindictive, it's just business.

...and yeah when you get self-righteous and try to manufacture the non-existent sexist link between well-meaning individuals and their open ended community discussions it's rather irksome.

You've called me a troll, stupid ("the point goes straight over your head"), and not well read ("read past 140 characters"). If desiring equal treatment for women in our sport is trolling and makes me dumb, so be it.

Well, see herein lies the problem. You continue to show that you're not grasping the concept. You want to call me out by name on a forum after facebook stalking me (incorrectly call me out too, not just "harsh", but 100% off base and incorrect) instead of manning up, pushing the "friend request" button, and voicing your opinion within the framework of a productive discussion. I 100% guarantee that if you had, our interchange would have a wholly different tone.

Instead you're stacking the martyr card on top of it, in order to not-so-subtly suggest that you're for gender equality where I'm not? You haven't yet contributed anything to the actual discussion about equality, you've just wasted time self-righteously trolling me for cheap brownie points on a forum.

 

[lyleoross]

Covering FPO shouldn't be a business decision, and is certainly not an "altruistic" gift to the women of our sport. It is the right thing to do for growing the diversity in our sport and teaching our children that women's sports matter. Business decisions like not having a FPO at the first year of the Disc Golf World Tour and the treatment of Val, show disc golf has needs in this area.

Does this mean you're going to pay for the coverage? Coolio! Thanks.

 

[ejvogie]

Gotta say I wasn't impressed by Prodigy's coverage (MPO lead card rounds 2 and 3?).

After hating so many commentators in major sports, I never thought I'd be missing them in a DG broadcast, but I think it would have added A LOT to the finished product.

 

[GoldeyeGolf]

Gotta say I wasn't impressed by Prodigy's coverage (MPO lead card rounds 2 and 3?).

After hating so many commentators in major sports, I never thought I'd be missing them in a DG broadcast, but I think it would have added A LOT to the finished product.

They cranked out those videos fast and they looked great. But I'm surprised Prodigy hasn't gone with some of there own players to do commentary, or found someone outside to do it. I've got to think there are plenty of people up to the task if they could get a chance. It's the only way they're going to get any of their discs mentioned on air, and that sort of thing moves product. I look at Prodigy from a marketing perspective, and see so many things that could be done more effectively.

 

[lyleoross]

I wanted to weigh in on the women's coverage, since Jamie and frasnow are having a go. This is the second go round on the women don't get respect theme. What I posted last time was along the lines that talk is cheap. It's easy to go on line and howl about the manufacturers and video produces stepping up, but success requires the public buying merch and watching those videos. I also wrote I'd believe that would happen... never.

To be clear, I'm a Democratic Socialist. There are something that have to be done for the greater social good. Fire departments, police, education etc. Somethings are more appropriate for capitalism. This is one. If we're not willing to watch the videos, and we're demanding a couple of guys with a video company step up at their expense, or even a small manufacturer cover the cost, we're being kind of silly. It's a twenty minute watch folks.

The rumor has it that Spin thought long and hard about covering the women's side. Why they ultimately decided to, I don't know. Perhaps the dedicated posters saying they were gonna support the women's game made them take them risk and, "do the right thing." Now, they're left holding the bag because the posters who wrote, "we all need to support the women's game," didn't.

So make a decision. Go watch, crowd fund or do something, but don't blame Spin.

Last, for the inevitable, he's just a fanboy post, go read my comments on Spin and Jamie. I've done my fair share of harshing. But they stepped up.

 

[bbwrenn]

Gotta say I wasn't impressed by Prodigy's coverage (MPO lead card rounds 2 and 3?).

After hating so many commentators in major sports, I never thought I'd be missing them in a DG broadcast, but I think it would have added A LOT to the finished product.

I thought the footage itself was pretty good. I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth, but I feel like I remember Marty saying a couple years back that he really would prefer to stick with the footage and ambient sound only. I think his rationale was that plenty of others were doing commentary and he liked simply having the round stand alone. As more and more high quality producers come around (he was one of the first for disc golf), it does make it feel like something is missing since everybody else is doing it now.

Personally, I actually am just as good without it. Most of the commentary to me is basic or redundant stuff and after having played for 10 years I don't need to hear it. However, there are talented guys too like CCDG crew, SpinTV crew, Nate, and even Paul/Ricky are pretty good (and that's without any training - they could be even better). It's definitely interesting to hear the players takes on themselves and what they could have done better or their logic on certain shots.

 

[_MTL_]

The commentary with Nate and Paul was fantastic because it gave insight into their mindset.

Most commentary, however, is nauseatingly boring, positive or brand specific favoritism.

Commentary is polar thing - it either completely makes a video or completely ruins it.

 

[JC17393]

The only thing commentary is good for, at least for the edited round coverage, is to explain when there is a ruling or some other situation that came up during the round that a viewer might not fully understand. That's especially true if part of the situation was either not filmed or what was filmed was confusing or incomplete (such as poor audio of the conversations among the players).

A good example of what I'm talking about is in The Disc Golf Guy's coverage of last year's USWDGC (round 3, I believe). Paige Pierce missed a putt, had it roll down the hill and into an OB creek. She re-putted from her lie instead of going down the hill, as the rules allow her to do. Terry had zero commentary for any of the rounds he covered, but for that instance, he filmed a short explanation of the rule and how Paige employed it and edited it into the video for clarity. Beyond that, with graphics covering hole numbers and score information, commentary was entirely unnecessary to the coverage.