DGPT Drops New Media Outlook for 2019

[TimSyl]

I'd say this is a big reason you haven't seen a tour stop in Charlotte NC for the Pros.

SW Michigan too. A legendary local TD has discussed NOT offering pro divisions because it's not worth it...and they collectively complain more than the AMs. And I'm talking about local B and C tiers.

Trying to get the $12000 added plus other expenses for a DGPT event so you can possibly break even doesn't make much sense for most of us.

 

[biscoe]

I'd say this is a big reason you haven't seen a tour stop in Charlotte NC for the Pros.

yep- Pro Worlds a few years back left a bad taste in the mouth of many of Charlotte's key organizers.

 

[biscoe]

SW Michigan too. A legendary local TD has discussed NOT offering pro divisions because it's not worth it...and they collectively complain more than the AMs. And I'm talking about local B and C tiers.

Around here the regional pro game is in decline. This is due to several factors some of which are simple economics. I suspect it will get worse before it gets better. i disagree that the (local) pros complain more than the ams though.

 

[turbosteve]

Around here the regional pro game is in decline. This is due to several factors some of which are simple economics. I suspect it will get worse before it gets better. i disagree that the (local) pros complain more than the ams though.

Is the regional am scene doing well?

 

[biscoe]

Is the regional am scene doing well?

Growing in leaps and bounds

 

[rhatton1]

Growing in leaps and bounds

I've never understood the idea of paying out large sums of money to travelling players who just take the money and go. If you're going to do all the legwork in raising funds, surely it's better to invest in the local area instead in terms of time and money. I can see the argument that attracting the top players will create more of a draw for the event, but does attracting that second tier of pro do the same thing? From the outside in the focus on the Pro circuit in the US always looked odd.

Every now and again in the depths of the night my brain starts thinking about running big Euro tour events, then in the light of day the rest of me answers "why?" Two players in the UK may just about scrape into cash positions, the rest of the raised money would just leave the country. What legacy could we leave when we spend all the time trying to scrape together money for travelling players. Bottom up organic growth has always seemed a steadier if less exciting way of growing the sport. There is no pro without the 100/1000/10000 ams (not sure of what the ratio is!) directly or indirectly supporting them. If you want to grow the pro side payouts beyond a handful of players supported by disc sales, focus on the am side first.

 

[DiscFifty]

There is no pro without the 100/1000/10000 ams (not sure of what the ratio is!) directly or indirectly supporting them. If you want to grow the pro side payouts beyond a handful of players supported by disc sales, focus on the am side first.

Could you elaborate on that, because I don't understand it. Seems like the pro side has been somewhat stagnant for a long time, payout growing slowly, # of pros growing slowly, etc. But the am side has grown substantially.

 

[TimSyl]

Around here the regional pro game is in decline. This is due to several factors some of which are simple economics. I suspect it will get worse before it gets better. i disagree that the (local) pros complain more than the ams though.

Obviously a generalization on my part, but yes, around here they complain more than ams. (not saying ams don't complain).

 

[biscoe]

I've never understood the idea of paying out large sums of money to travelling players who just take the money and go. If you're going to do all the legwork in raising funds, surely it's better to invest in the local area instead in terms of time and money. I can see the argument that attracting the top players will create more of a draw for the event, but does attracting that second tier of pro do the same thing? From the outside in the focus on the Pro circuit in the US always looked odd.

A substantial part of the issue is the ass backwards way the "sport" developed. We had "pros" before we ever had "ams" which resulted in a huge portion of the pro field who never would have been pros in any reasonable approximation of a competition system. These players have now aged out of the system for the most part so what was an artificially high proportion of "professional" players is regressing to a number that makes sense in an organic system.

 

[ru4por]

While I appreciate the fierce loyalty, I don't really care who provides me with the free video event coverage. If I have to pay, I am out. If the quality is crappy, I don't care....it's free. If the commentary is crappy....mute. If the coverage is bad enough, I will simply not watch.

Probably gonna catch some heat for my take, but I am being honest. I am betting I am not alone.

 

[DavidSauls]

I've never understood the idea of paying out large sums of money to travelling players who just take the money and go. If you're going to do all the legwork in raising funds, surely it's better to invest in the local area instead in terms of time and money. I can see the argument that attracting the top players will create more of a draw for the event, but does attracting that second tier of pro do the same thing? From the outside in the focus on the Pro circuit in the US always looked odd.

Every now and again in the depths of the night my brain starts thinking about running big Euro tour events, then in the light of day the rest of me answers "why?" Two players in the UK may just about scrape into cash positions, the rest of the raised money would just leave the country. What legacy could we leave when we spend all the time trying to scrape together money for travelling players. Bottom up organic growth has always seemed a steadier if less exciting way of growing the sport. There is no pro without the 100/1000/10000 ams (not sure of what the ratio is!) directly or indirectly supporting them. If you want to grow the pro side payouts beyond a handful of players supported by disc sales, focus on the am side first.

Eventually you wonder why run a tournament for amateurs, just so a bunch of players can load up on merchandise. Even if you manage to do it at a profit, it's not enough of one to justify the time involved.

We do it because we want those tournaments to exist, and somebody's got to. It's harder to justify with the pros, but doesn't make a whole lot of sense, either way.

 

[Future_Primitive]

While I appreciate the fierce loyalty, I don't really care who provides me with the free video event coverage. If I have to pay, I am out. If the quality is crappy, I don't care....it's free. If the commentary is crappy....mute. If the coverage is bad enough, I will simply not watch.

Probably gonna catch some heat for my take, but I am being honest. I am betting I am not alone.

Not gonna light you up for your opinion, but I will standing on the other side of the line.

Color me spoiled but the quality and presentation from Jomez and CCDG are the only ones worth watching for me. I have tried some others and usually 2-3 holes I quit and do something else. Don't care who is on the card, if it looks like crap on my HDTV I aint watching it. Rather go practice putting or play a round myself.

Conversely, I also dont care who is on the card much on Jomez/CCDG I will almost always watch it. Like the commentary, the graphics, the flyovers and shot coverage. Not gonna even try to say I am the minority or majority of the DG crowd, just expressing my disdain for crap quality coverage. I hope DGPT doesnt think any JoeBlow can do what Jomez and CCDG have done for DG coverage as it would be a big mistake on their part.

 

[turbosteve]

I think the organic growth at the am level has benefited the top pros a lot. The growth of the tour series market is impressive. Even Garrett Gurthie is getting a decent amount of money from the sales of his sonic.

 

[Mocheez]

Eventually you wonder why run a tournament for amateurs, just so a bunch of players can load up on merchandise. Even if you manage to do it at a profit, it's not enough of one to justify the time involved.

We do it because we want those tournaments to exist, and somebody's got to. It's harder to justify with the pros, but doesn't make a whole lot of sense, either way.

Our local TD and shop owner ran 15 tournaments last year. I'd imagine he is making a decent profit, otherwise he wouldn't be doing it.

 

[rhatton1]

Eventually you wonder why run a tournament for amateurs, just so a bunch of players can load up on merchandise. Even if you manage to do it at a profit, it's not enough of one to justify the time involved.

We do it because we want those tournaments to exist, and somebody's got to. It's harder to justify with the pros, but doesn't make a whole lot of sense, either way.

We do fairly bare bones ones over here, no player packs and relatively little in the way of prizes, keeps prices down and consistently seems to be what the player base wants. Makes the focus more on the fun of friendly competition. I'm happy to TD tournies for fun when no one is expecting to profit from them. Putting in voluntary work for someone else to profit just doesn't sit well for me.

 

[biscoe]

I think the organic growth at the am level has benefited the top pros a lot. The growth of the tour series market is impressive. Even Garrett Gurthie is getting a decent amount of money from the sales of his sonic.

Top pros- yes. Guys lower on the food chain not so much... and once the guys lower on the food chain disappear the top pros will have to start feeding on themselves (in a competitive sense).

 

[DavidSauls]

Our local TD and shop owner ran 15 tournaments last year. I'd imagine he is making a decent profit, otherwise he wouldn't be doing it.

That's valid. He's already got the underlying business, and weekend events are supplemental.

For most TDs, the financial rewards aren't there.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do it---just that the reasons aren't financial. Moreso with the pros, but either way, we're doing it for other reasons. And clearly, right now, it's worth the effort to enough people, to bring top pros to their course or town, and perhaps video coverage, that they keep doing it.

 

[Lazerface]

That's valid. He's already got the underlying business, and weekend events are supplemental.

For most TDs, the financial rewards aren't there.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do it---just that the reasons aren't financial. Moreso with the pros, but either way, we're doing it for other reasons. And clearly, right now, it's worth the effort to enough people, to bring top pros to their course or town, and perhaps video coverage, that they keep doing it.

Exactly. While I am baffled by the hard core TDs and volunteers who make it happen, I have never bought into to them being a "victim" of anything. It's a choice, and if it was about the money, they wouldn't be doing it. They are for sure under appreciated and have to listen to whiners, but they can literally simply stop doing it at any time. It's so thankless, blah, blah, blah. Obviously they get something out of it. Anyone with a basic understanding of human psychology knows it's not 100% altruism. It never is.

 

[DavidSauls]

My brother and I run tournaments, and we compare it to throwing a party. There's really no reason anyone should ever host a party; it's easier to go to parties that someone else is hosting. But we want to.

There is, of course, the point at which it becomes too expensive, or too much hassle, and your neighborhood party host will decide he's had enough.

Which also might apply to the folks scraping up money and putting on NTs and DGPTs and the like.

 

[TimSyl]

That's valid. He's already got the underlying business, and weekend events are supplemental.

For most TDs, the financial rewards aren't there.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do it---just that the reasons aren't financial. Moreso with the pros, but either way, we're doing it for other reasons. And clearly, right now, it's worth the effort to enough people, to bring top pros to their course or town, and perhaps video coverage, that they keep doing it.

Yep, I TD a couple/three events a year. Have made a couple dollars a couple times but usually break even or lose a few bucks. I do it out of pride for the courses I've been involved in designing, building, and/or take care of. Not saying this is the way it should be though. I'm at the point where I'm not going to do it if I can't profit a bit.