2014 United States Disc Golf Championship

[nolangherity]

the reality is that winthrop is a joke and all the artificial ob = someone random winning every year. its such a crap shoot. i mean seriously patrick brown and johne were riding along the top card? why are masters players beating 25 year old open players? i know the pdga is all about statistics and score separation and whatnot, is this not a red flag?

i also find it ridiculous that the winner of this one single tournament is considered the united states disc golf champion. there should be cumulative points throughout the season to decide that. i could sign up, win the tourny because of a fluke, lets say all the top dogs get the flu, and be the united states champion? it makes no sense.

i mean im not even going to get into the performance flight ****, but it just shows how this tourny is an oddity and an outlier in comparison to all other tournaments. there should be no artificial clout involved, because its no different than any other tournament, except this one has a ton of weird ass rules.

 

[Travis1010]

As a spectator, I don't really enjoy all the artificial OB, but it's been like that so long now that I doubt they would make big changes and "ruin" the tradition of it. I also think all the ropes look kind of cheesy.

 

[Khao Pra]

the reality is that winthrop is a joke and all the artificial ob = someone random winning every year. its such a crap shoot. i mean seriously patrick brown and johne were riding along the top card? why are masters players beating 25 year old open players? i know the pdga is all about statistics and score separation and whatnot, is this not a red flag?

.

Johne was the leading money winner for much of this year. Sometimes it takes years of play before we learn how to play smart golf. Barry was in position to win last year.

Your comment reminds me of the story about the two bulls (one old one young) staring out over the cows grazing in the pasture. "Hey grandfather let's run down and @&$; a cow"

"Let's walk instead, and @&$; them all"

 

[sandelius]

the reality is that winthrop is a joke and all the artificial ob = someone random winning every year. its such a crap shoot. i mean seriously patrick brown and johne were riding along the top card? why are masters players beating 25 year old open players? i know the pdga is all about statistics and score separation and whatnot, is this not a red flag?

Usually the players that throw OB complain about the OBs.

The only hole that I don't like is the 888. The trees are too much in the way and you pretty much have to play in the parking lot.

 

[Stankyjahnke]

Some random winning? Will has won 3 out of the past 5 years. All the OB makes the course challanging. You can't just go out there and grip it and rip it. It's a very level playing field for everyone. Those who try to show off the big arm usually go OB and hurt themselves.

 

[Khao Pra]

15 years, ken has 5, will 3, Barry 3. That's 11 out of 15 years, yeah that's not random at all

 

[sidewinder22]

I'm still perplexed by Wysocki. He got 2nd place like 2 years ago. So people saying not his style of play doesn't completely make sense entirely. Anyway.

So why was there such a drastic point spread from the last few years as far as score is concerned? I kow they changes some teepads, did they change or make the OB more difficult too?

There was a change in his discs.

 

[bombmk]

This. I followed the lead card the entire final round. He laid up or played safe several times. I'm a huge JohnE fan, he is by far my favorite pro. Wish he could've pulled it out.

Yeah, there was a reason he did not post a bogey on that round before 17. Quite impressive considering most of the other top 10 players had 4 bogey+ or more.
And it was not because he played aggressively - but smart.

 

[Star Shark]

At Winthrop Gold, accuracy is key. Throwing 600' is nice but you have to be able to place your shot in a good location for the next. It's like in ball golf. Go shoot your local muni course and then play Beth Page Black, Pebble Beach or Sawgrass and tell me those courses aren't markedly different. More challenging than the ones you hit up on the avg weekend.

 

[JTacoma03]

Brown seemed to have a "this would be great without all these damn cameras and spectators" attitude. The thumbs up seemed more like a "yeah, I ****ed up, you want a reaction? Here's a damn reaction!" The gallery was insane, plus more cameras than ever. It's not just new to him, but just a whole new level of distraction even for the guys who are there on the top card year after year.

I don't have any reference on his personality, and I enjoyed watching him shoot but didn't like his "presence" compared to the other 3. I wasn't sad when he faltered on 16... Not that a fourway playoff wouldn't've been cool.

I see where you're coming from, but I've filmed PB more than most and he actually loves the camera. He and Simon both tend to play better when the camera is on, lol.

I'd say about 50% of the time his negative reactions are toward himself and not others. He's a perfectionist with an old-school skater mentality (he was a sponsored pro skater and graffiti artist in a previous life) which brings that anti-authoritarian chip-on-the-shoulder mentality.

Oftentimes he gets upset too easily (and he'll be the first to admit it), but if you re-watch a broadcast or can see clips between shots you'll see him fist bump and congratulate others on shots constantly. When someone catches a bad break you'll hear him groan, or plead (in a positive way "go, get around, etc.") for his competitors' shots. Of the 4 on the lead card he actually was the most complimentary of his cardmates...and I'm not saying that as a shot at the others, just being honest.

There is that % of the time where you'll be a target of collateral commentary from him, not saying he's perfect by any stretch, but he is a bit misunderstood and he gets in his own way often. That said he loves the game and you can draw parallels to his personality type in many other professional sports.

 

[joecoin]

I'm still perplexed by Wysocki. He got 2nd place like 2 years ago. So people saying not his style of play doesn't completely make sense entirely...

There was a change in his discs.

Good thing Shusterick hasn't changed his discs, he would have finished wayyyy back.

 

[TOB3RT]

Don't like the rocks on one -- just seemed like a great starter basket without them. I'm sure they add difficulty and score seperation, but they just look silly.

Basket 15 seems so silly on the videos -- is it as awkward to play as it is to watch?

The clown's mouth is just silly. I'm a big gadget/OB fan, but that's not good. I didn't like the bamboo either . . . try something else.

I liked the look of 5's tee -- seemed like a good add -- yes?

I'm sure this stuff as been blathered about, I'm just going back to read it.

15's actually really fun. Adds a good challenge.
The bamboo hole is the hole I look forward to as an amateur player. I'm always trying to get it to go straight through and it's just really fun. No problems whatsoever :clap:

 

[krupicka]

Hole 15 is just a tough hole and is quite different from all of the other holes at Winthrop in that it is not out in the open. It is also the most natural in that the OB and mando is there to keep players from taking short cuts, but otherwise not a factor. If you get into trouble early it requires much more creativity to come out ok.

Seeing the course on video doesn't really do it justice. You need to play it to realize how tough it really is.

I do find it amusing when some complain about adding all the artificial OB and then in the next sentence think the new rocks (i.e. natural obstacles) on hole 1 look silly.

 

[Jay Dub]

Watching this and the Worlds I'll say that the coverage for these events have really improved. That's nice to see.

Good job!

 

[JC17393]

I do find it amusing when some complain about adding all the artificial OB and then in the next sentence think the new rocks (i.e. natural obstacles) on hole 1 look silly.

I find it amusing that people complain about "artificial" OB at all. ALL OB IS ARTIFICIAL. Doesn't matter if it's pavement, water, rocks, ropes, haybales, whatever. Nothing is OB until the course designer declares it so. So what difference does it make if the OB is a pond or a parking lot or an area surrounded by rope?

There's nothing arbitrary or random about the OBs and hazards at Winthrop. It's the exact same course for every player. Any argument that can be made that it punishes unequally can be applied to any other course in the world just the same.

The biggest ball golf tournament in the world does the exact same things to its courses as they do to Winthrop. They trick up US Open courses to make it tougher on the players. They grow the rough longer and thicker than the course is "normally" set up (= ropes at Winthrop because what challenge does longer grass offer disc golf?). The results is narrower fairways than "normal". They pick pin locations on the wildly undulating greens that are the most challenging and difficult to get to that make even 5 foot putts a make or break challenge (elevated baskets, baskets on slopes, baskets abutting OB, baskets surrounded by trees requiring specific approach lines).

We're a long way off from being able to hold a tournament on a course that presents the physical and mental challenges that Winthrop Gold does while being aesthetically "natural" to the eye. Hell, a lot of the courses that come closest to doing that (at least in my experience) often get **** on for being too tough or too random or too unfair, mainly because the old huck-a-hyzer-bomb approach doesn't work. We need to get over the mentality that requiring precision and specific lines/types of shots makes a hole/course too "random" and therefore bad.

 

[Jay Dub]

I find it amusing that people complain about "artificial" OB at all. ALL OB IS ARTIFICIAL. Doesn't matter if it's pavement, water, rocks, ropes, haybales, whatever. Nothing is OB until the course designer declares it so. So what difference does it make if the OB is a pond or a parking lot or an area surrounded by rope?

There's nothing arbitrary or random about the OBs and hazards at Winthrop. It's the exact same course for every player. Any argument that can be made that it punishes unequally can be applied to any other course in the world just the same.

The biggest ball golf tournament in the world does the exact same things to its courses as they do to Winthrop. They trick up US Open courses to make it tougher on the players. They grow the rough longer and thicker than the course is "normally" set up (= ropes at Winthrop because what challenge does longer grass offer disc golf?). The results is narrower fairways than "normal". They pick pin locations on the wildly undulating greens that are the most challenging and difficult to get to that make even 5 foot putts a make or break challenge (elevated baskets, baskets on slopes, baskets abutting OB, baskets surrounded by trees requiring specific approach lines).

We're a long way off from being able to hold a tournament on a course that presents the physical and mental challenges that Winthrop Gold does while being aesthetically "natural" to the eye. Hell, a lot of the courses that come closest to doing that (at least in my experience) often get **** on for being too tough or too random or too unfair, mainly because the old huck-a-hyzer-bomb approach doesn't work. We need to get over the mentality that requiring precision and specific lines/types of shots makes a hole/course too "random" and therefore bad.

It's a new mentality I also see from the younger players. Short accurate shots are more difficult and to them, nothing to brag about so they don't/can't do it.

The way I describe these younger players and their game is that they can throw 500' but they can't throw 250'.

 

[grodney]

+4 for the week cashed. That's about a 1010 rating average, plus or minus.

Approx SSA per round:
1 = 67.6
2 = 68.5
3 = 70.3
4 = 72.8

Paige was +2 for the week.

 

[tampabay]

We need to get over the mentality that requiring precision and specific lines/types of shots makes a hole/course too "random" and therefore bad.

While I agree with this, having to throw a putter into a wall of trees with random 1' gaps and no true fairway doesn't make for a good hole either.

I don't think that was the case at Winthrope, but playing holes without a true fairway is one of the most obnoxious things possible to experience on a course. Especially if you aren't a local playing that hole to exhaustion.

 

[New013]

there is no natural OB huh... yeah you throw your disc in the bottom of a lake and go play it as it lies. in the coroners report they won't say, died of artificial causes.

also the idea that the Winthrop gold course in no way creates randomness and only rewards skill is also off base. two players can throw nearly identical shots and one could possibly hit a post holding up that string and kick back in bounds while the other player could barely miss it and go OB.

 

[sidewinder22]

Good thing Shusterick hasn't changed his discs, he would have finished wayyyy back.

Will probably would have won last year if not for the switch, he has this courses number. Some people also take longer to adjust to change. Ricky has to learn twice as many shots as Will because he throws FH as much as BH.