2023 PDGA Champions Cup, April 20-23

[Cgkdisc]

Would like to see Kristin enter a MPO event. If I remember right Paige Pierce did this a few years back.

A fairer test of skills not just power would be having MPO play the FPO layout and compare.

 

[foxdawg10]

Just to see how far bogey free golf would take her playing against the men.

Gotcha. She is killing it this weekend for sure.

 

[foxdawg10]

I agree. I was thinking about his style and how that would work from the front. I think he embodies the play against the course mindset. I wonder if he ever checks scores? I'm sure he knows how he is doing, but he seems like he's not one to pay much attention to what everyone else does.

In the post round interview he said he was definitely in that flow state zone so far this week, and it definitely showed. Everything looked effortless for him.

 

[txmxer]

A fairer test of skills not just power would be having MPO play the FPO layout and compare.

I like the idea, but it would be really tough to get an honest comparison. It would have to be a really short course to see skill to skill. Even on a 300' tee shot, the men are throwing 60% and even the best FPO is throwing 70+%.

Of course made up stats, but I think it's accurate in relative terms.

Or alternatively throwing discs that provide better control.

 

[foxdawg10]

I like the idea, but it would be really tough to get an honest comparison. It would have to be a really short course to see skill to skill. Even on a 300' tee shot, the men are throwing 60% and even the best FPO is throwing 70+%.

Of course made up stats, but I think it's accurate in relative terms.

Or alternatively throwing discs that provide better control.

I would think comparing round ratings on the current layouts would accomplish the same thing since round ratings already take into account the difference in distance, etc.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I like the idea, but it would be really tough to get an honest comparison. It would have to be a really short course to see skill to skill. Even on a 300' tee shot, the men are throwing 60% and even the best FPO is throwing 70+%.

Of course made up stats, but I think it's accurate in relative terms.

Or alternatively throwing discs that provide better control.

I agree. My point was more about the fact that if even the best FPO are playing true MPO distance layouts, they can't realistically contend but may be able to cash. Take a look at the scores on the Innova layout in R2 and R4 at the Las Vegas Challenge where FPO played from the same MPO tees.

 

[sidewinder22]

I agree. I was thinking about his style and how that would work from the front. I think he embodies the play against the course mindset. I wonder if he ever checks scores? I'm sure he knows how he is doing, but he seems like he's not one to pay much attention to what everyone else does.

Isaac knew the scores when he won Idlewild last year. He talked about maybe laying up the last putt.

I really enjoy watching him shred in the woods.

 

[Flick Maniac]

Anyone else super annoyed by the constant deadpan staring at the camere by Schultz's caddy? Same dude who previously had a joke t-shirt with a huge picture of himself and his name on it.

I dont care if he's a household fun dude and "thats just him" or any nonsense like that. Unless you played your way onto the live lead card, stop trying to make carrying a bag for the person who did into your own personal 15 mins of fame.

 

[biscoe]

I agree. My point was more about the fact that if even the best FPO are playing true MPO distance layouts, they can't realistically contend but may be able to cash. Take a look at the scores on the Innova layout in R2 and R4 at the Las Vegas Challenge where FPO played from the same MPO tees.

and the round ratings from said event- FPO getting 12-26 points higher for the same scores. The "bubble" of touring women are imo overrated a bit.

 

[biscoe]

Not necessarily a rhetorical question although it might end up there: has there ever been a bigger delta between 1 and the field than right now between Kristin and FPO? I don't know the history well enough and if there is a comp, maybe it's the first stretch of Climo's run. In the second half, you had strong 2s challenging and sometimes winning (Schultz, Doss, Feldberg). And to be clear, I'm not comparing KT's current performance to KC's sustained performance. Rather, if she's on right now, it really doesn't feel like there's a player that can keep up. So, the question is a sort of her best against the field's best and whether there's a comparable sense of separation anywhere in the game's history within a season.

Actual question. Looking forward to learning.

Not a bad comp. Kenny was similar to Kristin in that while he may not have thrown the farthest or been the best putter he was close to the top in all skills and seldom made mistakes. The feel was kind of the same- that he would have to play down to the competition to not win.

 

[biscoe]

Anyone else super annoyed by the constant deadpan staring at the camere by Schultz's caddy? Same dude who previously had a joke t-shirt with a huge picture of himself and his name on it.

I dont care if he's a household fun dude and "thats just him" or any nonsense like that. Unless you played your way onto the live lead card, stop trying to make carrying a bag for the person who did into your own personal 15 mins of fame.

I thought the t-shirt was too much but have no other issues with Matt's caddy behavior. Didn't even notice any staring into the camera.

 

[XC_Eddy]

A few years back when Paige was chasing 1000 it always seemed like a pipe dream because she wasn't averaging 1000+ rated golf for sustained stretches. Kristin is doing that and then some. FPO being collectively higher rated helps make it possible and she's crushing with good consistent mistake free golf.

Tartar on pace to be the 1st 1000 rated female player in the next several ratings updates if she keeps this up. Cool benchmark to take down if she can get it.

 

[XC_Eddy]

Not necessarily a rhetorical question although it might end up there: has there ever been a bigger delta between 1 and the field than right now between Kristin and FPO? I don't know the history well enough and if there is a comp, maybe it's the first stretch of Climo's run. In the second half, you had strong 2s challenging and sometimes winning (Schultz, Doss, Feldberg). And to be clear, I'm not comparing KT's current performance to KC's sustained performance. Rather, if she's on right now, it really doesn't feel like there's a player that can keep up. So, the question is a sort of her best against the field's best and whether there's a comparable sense of separation anywhere in the game's history within a season.

Actual question. Looking forward to learning.

Juliana Corver was incredibly dominant during her run at the top in the late 90's and early 2000's. In 2001 she played 34 FPO events and won 33 of them. https://www.pdga.com/player/7438/stats/2001

1998-2001 were all like that with her playing 30+ FPO events and winning all but once or twice.

A different time, a different field, still very impressive.

 

[Cgkdisc]

and the round ratings from said event- FPO getting 12-26 points higher for the same scores. The "bubble" of touring women are imo overrated a bit.

That's a flaw in the automated way the PDGA now does ratings separately for fields playing the same course just because the pars on some holes are set differently in Tournament Manager. Their web system doesn't "see" that the scores from both pools should usually be combined to produce ratings as long as the weather wasn't significantly different between their pool's tee time range. In addition, the women get more penalties than the men on that same layout so their top players get even more of a ratings boost than than MPO from the penalty stroke padding.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Just to see how far bogey free golf would take her playing against the men.

You can basically see where bogey free golf places players shooting "even par" in the MPO division.

Maybe even a few strokes under, if you assume that playing good enough to shoot bogey free means you're likely to card a some birdies along the way.

So maybe 10 under, over a four round tournament?

Just spitballin' it.

 

[Steve West]

and the round ratings from said event- FPO getting 12-26 points higher for the same scores. The "bubble" of touring women are imo overrated a bit.

Yep, FPO ratings are isolated from MPO ratings. Equal ratings numbers don't indicate equal skills.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

As has been pointed out by many (on several different occasions): the PDGA rating system is imperfect.

... as are many other rating systems.

Hell, show me a rating system that isn't flawed or at least occasionally misleading in some way. :\

 

[foxdawg10]

It looks like it might an exciting finish today.

 

[araytx]

The pros have outgrown this course, it plays soft.

There are actually two ways to look at the outcome.
a) the course is playing soft
b) the players are actually that good

She's the only woman not named Tattar to win a DGPT event this year with Tattar in attendance. The ceiling is still there, the floor has just dropped considerably. This week in particular she is injured as well.

Sai Ananda at Texas States

Spot on. Two very different approaches to the game.

Paige played a more aggressive, high risk/high reward game, frequently pushing OB lines (often taking those OB penalties). But she also made some spectacular shots and putts.

Kristin doesn't take many chances, and makes far fewer mistakes. Consistency and a well -balanced shot making repertoire are her hallmark.


Although I don't think there's that big a difference in age (please correct me if I'm wrong), their careers seem to have peaked at quite different times.

Would be sooooo much fun to see Paige at her prime battling Kristen at her prime.

Kristin is right at one year younger than Paige.

I'm sure Silver being present at most of the events and travelling with her is a big source of support.
But no doubt all the time away from her daughter adds up, and cumulatively takes a toll.

Obviously, she must have a good support system back in Estonia.

And while you couldn't have asked for a better behaved child at this event ladt year, its really a shame how things played out, because I think that was the first time the brought her daughter on the tour with her. I hope it's not the last.

IIRC, she plans on going back to Estonia after Jonesboro next week and come back during the lead up to Worlds at Smuggler's Notch.

Would like to see Kristin enter a MPO event. If I remember right Paige Pierce did this a few years back.

Catrina Allen played MPO in the USDGC a few years back.

Why do you want to see her play MPO? Just curious.

Just to see how far bogey free golf would take her playing against the men.

Kristin is still a 990 player. She'll still be a 990 player playing against men. Although there may be some courses that favor her style. Averaging 990 in MPO isn't close to making cash currently. Even the 1010 she averaged this week isn't cashing in MPO.

FYI the winner of the US Women's Disc Golf Championships earns an invite to the USDGC. Kristen played in it as well in 2019.

Juliana Corver was incredibly dominant during her run at the top in the late 90's and early 2000's. In 2001 she played 34 FPO events and won 33 of them. https://www.pdga.com/player/7438/stats/2001

1998-2001 were all like that with her playing 30+ FPO events and winning all but once or twice.

A different time, a different field, still very impressive.

And Juliana did the unthinkable, when she made the CASH line at the 2001 USDGC

 

[foxdawg10]

OK the worst stat of the day and Doss acted like it was some sort of revelation.

"Schultz has 1% chance of winning at beginning of day, 2% a few holes ago, and now 5%. Wow!"

He acted as if Schultz' chances jumped to 50% or something.