Climo vs. McBeth vs. (insert next dominant player)

[paulw]

It's always the same discussion and the same answer.

Improving technology, more competition, better knowledge of workouts and diet plans and how they influence your performance, mental training etc. With all those tools, people today perform better than people when the sport was invented. If you could make a competition between player X at his peak (which was 20 years ago) and player Y at his peak with all his tools (which is now), player Y would always win.

Same in for example tennis, if Federer at his peak could play against Rod Laver at his peak with his cotton shirt and his wooden racket and his 100 year old running shoes, Laver couldn't even return a ball. The game is so much faster today and the guys are so much sharper today, the comparison is not even fair.

But Laver racked up all his grand slams, so the record for most grand slams will always be his. But performance wise, he would probably not even be in the top 100 today.

Rod Laver in his peak could play against anyone, ever. Rod Laver in his peak with his out-dated racket could compete against Federer with his wooden racket -- he wouldn't win but it would be competitive. Give Laver whatever the latest greatest trampoline racket vs anyone, ever, and Laver's going to win his share, calm down. (Yes, I'm old, I had a Jack Kramer, yes, I remember Rod Laver . . .)

Bill Russell could compete against anyone that's ever played basketball, and if he walked onto any court in the history of time in his prime, he's dominating.

Nicklaus in his prime versus any/all of today's pretty hot shots would win his share.

Climo's legacy matches these.

With the exception of Secretariat, everyone else today can be matched with history -- Secretariat's unique. He's better than the rest . . . by a lot.

 

[kerplunk]

^^^People on DGCR care. Who cares enough about saying people shouldn't care to post a meme about it? (Meant for the post two up)

I would really like to see a poll here.

I think McBeth, mostly because of his better forehand. I feel like FH is something that is pretty hard to get down if it doesn't feel a little natural at first, so even if KC was forced to learn FH to compete it may not have been as good as Paul's. And Paul seems to have all that clean-living stuff going on, which seems like an unfair advantage to me.

 

[DG_Before_Breakfast]

Gretzky vs Crosby... all the same arguments.

I'd say lets jump in the way back and pit McBeast up against Kenny with the technology that was present at the time. To be a stickler, I think I would choose Paul...

Ken vs Paul vs... Simon. Just to fill in the blank of the original title. Paul said he loves playing with him in his recent ITB. I think they bring the best out of each other.

Cheers!

That would be fun. Maybe a 1 (or 3) Disc round with a Roc, (Aviar, Tbird). On a short technical course.

 

[Cgkdisc]

If McBeth grew up at the same age as Climo in that California environment, it's hard to know if he would have developed a crushing forehand or even been as interested to focus on disc golf just like some of the other athletes I mentioned who could have rivaled Climo but didn't have the motivation or needed to make a living. Climo's mental game had to be superior to consistently close out others who had similar skill sets and sometimes more like Stokely, Randolph and Crazy with solid forehands. McBeth might have continued with baseball and just dabbled with disc golf.

 

[HiFi]

Game has completely changed. Climo played the vast majority of his career without the type of disc tech we have now. McBeth carries 7 Destroyers. It's impossible to compare the two really.

Also as far as Climo vs. McBeth vs. ? There is no one even worth mentioning until someone else wins 3 straight world titles.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Doss is in the conversation with 3 titles and the first to knock Climo from the mountain with his new school long game on the longest set of Worlds courses ever in 2005. He's kind of the transition stud leading to McBeth. But note Doss is currently second ranked in the World even with his distractions like getting married and dabbling with a microbrewery. Winning three titles over six years is more impressive than 3 in a row considering he defeated the King during the end of his reign and has won over more different top contending players than McBeth so far.

 

[paulw]

Doss is in the conversation with 3 titles and the first to knock Climo from the mountain with his new school long game on the longest set of Worlds courses ever in 2005. He's kind of the transition stud leading to McBeth. But note Doss is currently second ranked in the World even with his distractions like getting married and dabbling with a microbrewery. Winning three titles over six years is more impressive than 3 in a row considering he defeated the King during the end of his reign and has won over more different top contending players than McBeth so far.

Doss is in the discussion, and if he wins again he's a much bigger part of the discussion.

Can Doss win the USDGC and get moved up a notch? Is there a non-World's tournament carrying the same kind of cache as ball golf's majors? Please don't list off the current slate of majors in disc golf -- I know what they are and I don't think they're at the same level in disc golf as the masters/pga/usopen/britishopen combo are while disc golf's worlds still clunks along with a similar level of notoriety in our sport.

Pre-"performance-flight" debacle the Usdgc was in this class, the japan open is more like brigadoon than a tournament, the Maple Hill lacks nothing, it just hasn't quite achieved masters or pga status type discussion in disc golf . . . the memorial? eh -- 18 hyzers of glory, nahhh. The European Open, like Maple Hill has everything, it just doesn't seem to keep the attention like worlds does or the usdgc did . . . .

 

[HiFi]

3 in 6 is not more impressive than 3 in a row imo. Consistent winning vs. flashes of brilliance. I was rooting for Doss last year because I thought perhaps a rivalry would form, but he was defeated by the same person... again... for the third time in a row. Being 2nd in the world is great but it's also April.

I like Doss and McBeth, I also throw Innova and Discraft almost exclusively. But at this moment in time McB owns Doss.

 

[Cgkdisc]

But Doss owned the best three times over a six year period. Much harder to do than three times in a row while you're hot and playing the same top people.

 

[Stable]

Yet Avery, who hasn't been relevant in 5 years is mentioned twice.

Harsh but true.

 

[crusadersounds]

This is opening Pandora's box... But one question... How could you not include Ricky Wysocki in his list of competition?

I actually intended to include Ricky, but when I got to him in the list, my brain drew a blank. Like literally, I sat there doing nothing for 60 seconds trying to come up with his name.

Yet Avery, who hasn't been relevant in 5 years is mentioned twice.

Didn't intend to double up on Avery. He has his name on the Destroyer, which is the primary reason he made it on the list in the first place. The other is that I just watched the vid of him vs. Brodie Smith in a trick shot battle again, so his name was fresh on the brain. Ricky was supposed to go in there, but as mentioned above, I drew a blank.

Why did you EMPHASIZE McBeth's consecutive wins but not mention Climos?

When McBeth wins 10 we can compare the two but not until then.

Short answer, I couldn't remember what years KC won. I knew some of them were broken up, but didn't take the time to look it up. Chalk it up to laziness on my part.

 

[Shipley]

Stokely competed against Climo with a monster backhand AND sidearm. But he too, ended up just another casualty..

 

[takman]

I actually intended to include Ricky, but when I got to him in the list, my brain drew a blank. Like literally, I sat there doing nothing for 60 seconds trying to come up with his name.



Didn't intend to double up on Avery. He has his name on the Destroyer, which is the primary reason he made it on the list in the first place. The other is that I just watched the vid of him vs. Brodie Smith in a trick shot battle again, so his name was fresh on the brain. Ricky was supposed to go in there, but as mentioned above, I drew a blank.



Short answer, I couldn't remember what years KC won. I knew some of them were broken up, but didn't take the time to look it up. Chalk it up to laziness on my part.

So you start a thread about the best of all time and were too lazy to look up stats? And someone makes a list because their name is on a disc? This whole thread draws a blank. "Best of all time" 1.Climo, 2.Schultz, 3.Doss, 4. Feldberg. McBeth maybe 5th at this point in time..... a USDGC would go a long way, seems to be out of his grasp...any excuses?

 

[HiFi]

So you start a thread about the best of all time and were too lazy to look up stats? And someone makes a list because their name is on a disc? This whole thread draws a blank. "Best of all time" 1.Climo, 2.Schultz, 3.Doss, 4. Feldberg. McBeth maybe 5th at this point in time..... a USDGC would go a long way, seems to be out of his grasp...any excuses?

Yeah Feldberg and Schultz > McBeth. Makes total sense.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Here are the actual Yearend World Rankings of these players since 2006. Feldberg dominates over this period, never having fallen out of the top 5. Plus, he's the only one to have a 3-year stretch totaling less than 6 points from 2008-2010. McBeth could beat it if he finishes this year in first or second.

 

[crusadersounds]

So you start a thread about the best of all time and were too lazy to look up stats? And someone makes a list because their name is on a disc? This whole thread draws a blank. "Best of all time" 1.Climo, 2.Schultz, 3.Doss, 4. Feldberg. McBeth maybe 5th at this point in time..... a USDGC would go a long way, seems to be out of his grasp...any excuses?

Wow, I come out of my own accord and admit my mistake and this is the response? I expected the usual "apples to oranges" and internet banter about how stupid it is to try to compare them, but I didn't expect the "you suck at interwebing." Next time there's a topic that hasn't been broached, I'll make sure to put more time into a discussion thread than I put into my Masters classes. So, nope, no excuses.

I see your 4 posts this year are very contributive to the website.

 

[Shooter14]

This is way out of the conversation but both Anthony Barella and Nick Papineau will be BIG names in a few short years. They're already big names honestly.

Seeing Nick in person puts it in a total different perspective.

 

[crusadersounds]

I can't wait to see them play Shooter! It's always fun watching younger players come up. I'm not in ANY way saying I would be pro, but I wish I had started earlier. This is such a great game, it would be fun if I hadn't waited until college to play!

 

[Shooter14]

I started at 15, now going on 17 in June. I would kill to have known about DG when I was 5 or 6! My little brothers are already killing it. I'm 920ish rated (it's 919 I think) and my 13 y/o brother will beat me on occasion. He's gonna be good, but no Anthony Barella.

 

[trumbulldore]

I was coming in here to write McBeth over Climo, but then I had a thought that changed my mind. Climo can still compete today. He's 47 years old, nowhere near the skill level he was at 20 years ago in the middle of his historic run. Can you imagine a young champ with Wraiths in his bag? I'm not saying Paul McBeth can't be the best because right now he is in a league of his own, but as of now Climo is still the best imo with McBeth behind him and then a slew of disc golfers in the next tier