[Innova] DGCR Survey: The Effects of Dome/Flatness in Innova Molds

[hisdudeness47]

So as we know, the effects of dome/flatness do not carry over across all molds. Dome in one mold often adds stability, and in another lessens stability. If you are not intimately familiar with a mold, how are ya supposed to know? Say I wanted to get a new mold or get multiples of one I already own... Wouldn't it be swell to know how dome/flatness typically affects that mold, all else being equal? This got me thinkin'... let's crowdsource it.

Let's get a thread going where someone names one or more Innova molds and those who ARE intimately familiar with the mold can reply with how they think dome/flatness affects the stability (or flight in general) of that mold. Let's assume other variables (weight, plastic, disc speed, etc.) are equal. If you could provide your approximate power level in the responses, that might be helpful because obviously disc speed is going to have an effect on these dome/flatness effects.

I thought about doing this "survey" for any mold, but thought it might be better to separate it by brand, starting with Innova, since there's probably more evidence and Innova experts out there than any other. If this works, we can start threads for other brands. I have no idea if this is a good idea or not. Obviously the answers will be anecdotal, but hey, can't hurt to try. Should be interesting either way. Add your own expertise on specific molds as you see fit. A mold doesn't have to be asked about, just hit us with that knowledge! No doubt a lot of this info is elsewhere on the site but it would be nice to have it all in one spot eh comrades? I'll start with some classic molds (mostly) to get the gears spinnin'. I'm also genuinely curious to see what the internet has to say. Let's do it.

How does dome/flatness affect the stability/flight of the following Innova molds?:

Animal, Colt, any Aviars, any Rocs, MD3/Mid-Disc3, Mako3, Eagle, Leopard3, Teebird, Teebird3, Firebird, Thunderbird, Valkyrie, Sidewinder, Roadrunner, Beast, Orc, Wraith, Destroyer, Boss, Shryke, Corvette

 

[GripEnemy]

The only Cobra worth throwing is an Ontario and they're flatopcorn:

 

[txmxer]

Domey Mamba flies straight and glides great. Awesome driver for my weenie arm. Probably understable if you can rip on it.

They seem to have a sharp edge on the bottom which can be tough on the hand. Not sure how that edge impacts flight.

 

[hisdudeness47]

Domey Mamba flies straight and glides great. Awesome driver for my weenie arm. Probably understable if you can rip on it.

They seem to have a sharp edge on the bottom which can be tough on the hand. Not sure how that edge impacts flight.

Nice. I have a pretty new domey max weight Star Mamba and I know the sharp edge you speak of. Doesn't bug me so I'll let it season naturally instead of hitting it with the sanding block. I've only thrown it a few times but that was enough to convince me to get one of the $6 Flash Sale Champ Mambas in max weight. I prefer Star but I'm curious how a Champ flies on a disc like that. I have a decent swing (~400-450 max) and can burn it easy but there's things that damn Mamba can do that might serve very useful, like patent pendings, standstills, huge hyzer flips, etc. Was never exposed to a Mamba as a beginner. Wish I was. Anyway, back on topic, how does a flat Mamba fly?

 

[ThrowBot]

On average, dome accentuates the dominant flight characteristic.

Flippy mold -> domey version is flippier.
Beefy mold -> domey version is beefier.

Dome also seems to add more sensitivity to nose angle.

But there are too many variables to truly nail it all down. Dome adds more glide but also more drag... is that good? At higher elevations, yes! Does your grip change subtly with more dome? That depends on how much flight plate is in your grip. Etc. All of these factors interplay.

 

[hisdudeness47]

On average, dome accentuates the dominant flight characteristic.

Flippy mold -> domey version is flippier.
Beefy mold -> domey version is beefier.

Dome also seems to add more sensitivity to nose angle.

But there are too many variables to truly nail it all down. Dome adds more glide but also more drag... is that good? At higher elevations, yes! Does your grip change subtly with more dome? That depends on how much flight plate is in your grip. Etc. All of these factors interplay.

All valid points and that's a cool "rule of thumb" I've never heard! Still could be fun to see what the prevailing wisdom on certain molds is. Of course there's a ton of variables at play, but we can pretend that all else is equal at least a little bit I won't treat it as gospel, I promise!

 

[PMantle]

For Destroyers and Wraiths, lower plh and dome seem to go hand in hand. So, maybe there is something about the molding or cooling process that results in lower plh in domey discs. Also, the flatter wing discussed by Doth in domey Destroyers. For me, if I want glide and distance from drivers, there has to be dome. For wind fighting, flat . No opinion on mids or putters.

 

[zontar]

all Cobras are wonderful. everyone needs one.

 

[twistedraven]

I haven't found dome and stability to correlate too too much, other than the fact that domey drivers on average tend to turn more mellow, but also fade more mellow. A lot of people might think that because their turn isn't as aggressive, they'd consider them more overstable. So I guess I have to disagree with ThrowBot's assertion, at least with my own findings.

Take the Shryke for example, I can't stand flattish ones, because when they start turning, they burn over rather easily. Pop-top Shrykes of very similar PLH tend to drift moreso than turn over, so they glide out longer.

Destroyers are harder. On average I tend to find my domey ones have lower PLH than the flatter ones, so the domey ones tend to be more understable. Then there's the fact that their wing shapes can very dramatically too. About a third of my Destroyers have wings closer to L-wings, while the rest are more of the conventional concave. A friend of mine has one that has more of a Roadruner styled convex wing. I have two recent purchases of Destroyers I bought of same PLH and wing shape, but one is 170g and domey, while the other is max weight and more flat, so again not a truly fair comparison. I found them to fly rather similarly though.

I've found the Teebird3 to be such a consistent mold, that I couldn't tell you how dome affects it.


Joel Freeman has been with Innova a while and he has a video on dominess: https://youtu.be/qhoKG5S6jiU

 

[kevdiv48]

Shryke- pop top is highly desirable to get the most glide out of this bomber. Stability varies even with pop top.
Wraith- stability and dome vary, have found beef cake poptop as well as flatties and vice versa.
Firebird- flatter the beefier.
Teebird- flatter the beefier, but at the sacrifice of glide. Best combo imo is slight to mild dome. Stay away from pop top.
Leopard/Leopard3- pop top ones can be OS. older runs especially pre Barry's were all very flat. Slight to mild dome is best combo of glide and stability.
Rancho Roc- more recent runs I have found pop tops to be beefier than flatter runs. Older runs are flat and beefy. Factory flat topped ones can be touchy and does wear as gradually as standard ones.

 

[TiltedFlipCurves]

all Cobras are wonderful. everyone needs one.

Absolutely my best disc right now and I don't think it's close.

 

[Sydex]

Teebird- flatter the beefier, but at the sacrifice of glide. Best combo imo is slight to mild dome. Stay away from pop top.

Oddly enough, domey Teebird3s are beefier. Pop top Teebirds can be instarollers.

 

[Twmccoy]

I've thrown hundreds of Innova discs across many different molds. In high speed drivers (anything 10 and above) a flat disc almost always equals more stability and less glide. Stuff like Wraiths, Destroyers, Corvettes, Colossi, Shrykes, etc are all better fliers when they have dome.

As mentioned in prior comments, flat discs often don't fly as well overall as their domier counterparts. A flat understable driver is way more prone to turning and burning rather than slowly drifting right. Anyone who's thrown a Nuke SS knows what I'm talking about. Those things flip quickly and violently. They also tend to fade more sharply at the end of flight.

Maybe some people prefer flat, fast drivers. I don't. If I'm going for max distance, I want a disc with some dome to it. I want the extra glide, and I don't want a really dumpy late fade. The only exception I'll make to this rule is the Nuke OS I bag. With that disc I don't want any turn, and I like the hard fade. For very overstable discs, flatter may actually be better.

 

[discerdoo]

TeeDub prefers dome on a driver? Shocking!

I've thrown dozens of Wraiths and dome doesn't necessarily equate to glide and distance for this mold.

 

[PMantle]

The number of flat drivers I've liked I can count on one hand. One is a certain gray Wave that just goes and is less US than just about every other Wave I have ever thrown. There can be too much of a good thing though. I have had a Destroyer and a Shryke with so much dome it seemed to slow the disc down too much.

 

[MTB3]

I've thrown dozens of Wraiths and dome doesn't necessarily equate to glide and distance for this mold.

Strong agree.

IME dome seems to effect several wraith flight characteristics, but with minimal (or offsetting effect) on total distance.

Domey = straighter flight, less turn, gliding fade. Could be "glidier," but also have more drag. Bad for crosswinds/swirling winds, especially if angles are missed. Works well for flippy wraiths (turn and burn resistance, tailwind carry), and OS ones probably being used for headwinds anyway.

Flat = Fast, turny, but still a reliable fade. Paired with an S-US wing can be touchy. Bombs on hyzerflips.

Mild dome (smooth shoulder to dome transition)= Perfect workhorse for me. More predictable in varying wind conditions than domey, more reliable with angles than flat.

Or put shortly, the flatter the wraith, the more responsive it seems to be to angles, for better or worse, with the additional caveat that high dome performs worse in wind IMO.

 

[PMantle]

Do Wraiths have the same wing variation as Destroyers? Meaning, less curve vs. more?

 

[twistedraven]

Do Wraiths have the same wing variation as Destroyers? Meaning, less curve vs. more?

I have quite a lot of Wraiths and Destroyers, and I find that on average, Wraiths tend to have a little less variation (nothing extreme though). Destroyers can range from very scooped to completely flat, whereas most of my Wraiths have a mellow scoop. Some are close to flat. A friend of mine showed me his convex'd (like a roadrunner) Destroyer wing. I have not seen a Wraith like that yet.

 

[PWaggoner]

A flat disc has less HSS and more fade.

A domey disc has more HSS and less fade.

Flat discs fly faster, domey discs glide more.

 

[ray1970]

I agree and disagree with most of what's been posted here.

I'll generally agree that dome seems to add glide. Too much dome almost seems to slow a disc down though if that makes sense. My extremely domey discs don't seem to go as fast or far as their less domey counterparts.

As far as dome impacting stability, I think it's really kind of a crap shoot. I have domey discs where the high dome seems to have pulled the leading edge of the disc up and they fly more overstable than their flatter brothers and sisters. I also have discs with big domes that have pushed the nose of the disc down that fly noticeably less stable.

To use the Wraith as an example, I have a really domey one that thinks it's a Firebird. I also have one with a similar dome that acts like a faster Leopard.