DGPT: 2020 The Preserve Championship July 3-5

[oldmandiscer]

I missed basket by 1 feet on my C1 putt. It didn't count. Silly rules.

That's a much erroneous throw though then throwing 500 feet and skipping to the left of a rope. Luck should be taken out of the game while still making it challenging without stupid ropes or silly clowns mouths for mandos.

It's simply a bad course or design if you have to add ropes. JMO.

 

[ToddL]

It's a crappy course though if they have to add artificial ropes to pretend like lakes and roads are everywhere.

I also wish we could pick and choose and purchase the best land in the world and build lakes and rivers. But we can't, so we build courses where we can. And on top of that, some places with great courses don't have the manpower to run great tournaments, and some places with great manpower don't have great courses. Nobody is happy to put out miles of OB rope, but we have to work with what we have. Things are getting better every year, but we still have to live in reality. Either hold a tournament on a course that's too easy, put ropes down to make it harder, or don't hold a tournament at all. None of them are great solutions.

 

[nothinbuttree]

I also wish we could pick and choose and purchase the best land in the world and build lakes and rivers. But we can't, so we build courses where we can. And on top of that, some places with great courses don't have the manpower to run great tournaments, and some places with great manpower don't have great courses. Nobody is happy to put out miles of OB rope, but we have to work with what we have. Things are getting better every year, but we still have to live in reality. Either hold a tournament on a course that's too easy, put ropes down to make it harder, or don't hold a tournament at all. None of them are great solutions.

Can I nice this twice?

Simply put, disc golf at present does not have the massive amounts of money flowing into that the more established sports do, particularly bolf. We should cherish every course we do have the opportunity to play on. I fear the more players at all levels gripe about courses, the less likely people will be to put the time and effort into making more courses. Or improving/maintaining the existing ones.

 

[oldmandiscer]

I also wish we could pick and choose and purchase the best land in the world and build lakes and rivers. But we can't, so we build courses where we can. And on top of that, some places with great courses don't have the manpower to run great tournaments, and some places with great manpower don't have great courses. Nobody is happy to put out miles of OB rope, but we have to work with what we have. Things are getting better every year, but we still have to live in reality. Either hold a tournament on a course that's too easy, put ropes down to make it harder, or don't hold a tournament at all. None of them are great solutions.

They should have planted trees twenty years ago at Winthrop. Fast growing trees would be 50 feet tall by now, with a minimal few hundred dollar investment. They simply lack the foresight to plan or the right leadership. Not picking on Winthrop but they are one of the leaders in the rope game. Heck would be alot easier to plant trees then lay ropes every year. Sure you don't get instant satisfication but if you want a great course, it can be done and done cheaply.

I don't buy the money excuse.

 

[nothinbuttree]

Planting, protecting and maintaining dozens of trees is not a several hundred dollar investment. Try tens of thousands. I don't like ropes either, but you know what, for a chance at $10K, I'd deal with it.

I am looking forward to all the great ideas from folks of where and how to put in some new epic courses that aren't on reclaimed bolf land and don't need any artificial OB. And who is paying for them. All for a sport where still only a very small handful can even make a living outside of endorsement deals.

 

[ChrisWoj]

They should have planted trees twenty years ago at Winthrop. Fast growing trees would be 50 feet tall by now, with a minimal few hundred dollar investment. They simply lack the foresight to plan or the right leadership. Not picking on Winthrop but they are one of the leaders in the rope game. Heck would be alot easier to plant trees then lay ropes every year. Sure you don't get instant satisfication but if you want a great course, it can be done and done cheaply.

I don't buy the money excuse.

What has the university response been to the idea of adding trees? Have trees been approved to be added specifically for the course in the past? My questions don't mean to imply that I don't think Winthrop has supported development of the course over the years, but I do know that just for our local public home course we need the approval of parks people before planting anything to make sure a) we're planting the right kind of tree for their desired growth; b) we're not planting in a place they don't want a tree; or c) we're not planting them too close to each other or other trees.

The first and third are pretty easy to deal with in a supportive environment, but the middle one - what if Winthrop doesn't want trees that shape the fairway of the disc golf course?

 

[Cgkdisc]

They should have planted trees twenty years ago at Winthrop. Fast growing trees would be 50 feet tall by now, with a minimal few hundred dollar investment. They simply lack the foresight to plan or the right leadership. Not picking on Winthrop but they are one of the leaders in the rope game. Heck would be alot easier to plant trees then lay ropes every year. Sure you don't get instant satisfaction but if you want a great course, it can be done and done cheaply.

I don't buy the money excuse.

Innova doesn't own the course, it's the Winthrop University property. Note that Innova designed their USDGC layouts from the very beginning to specifically test "elite" players who qualified. They never said what they did on their course layouts should be emulated as "good design" for players below elite level which is pretty much everyone below 1000 rating. Innova underestimated the interest other course designers and TDs would have in literally tormenting most players with the design elements they introduced specifically for elite players.

Various experienced course designers including Innova designers warned that these elements were not intended for the rest of us, including much longer courses. But we've seen what happened over the past 20 years. At least the PDGA held the line on not rating some of those rounds due to certain rules that strayed too far from the rules definition of disc golf at that time.

 

[oldmandiscer]

Planting, protecting and maintaining dozens of trees is not a several hundred dollar investment. Try tens of thousands. I don't like ropes either, but you know what, for a chance at $10K, I'd deal with it.

I am looking forward to all the great ideas from folks of where and how to put in some new epic courses that aren't on reclaimed bolf land and don't need any artificial OB. And who is paying for them. All for a sport where still only a very small handful can even make a living outside of endorsement deals.

I've planted trees, protected and watered them for less than 300 dollars. It's not hard. I'm just one guy with very minimal work involved. Once they are big enough they take care of themselves.

 

[oldmandiscer]

What has the university response been to the idea of adding trees? Have trees been approved to be added specifically for the course in the past? My questions don't mean to imply that I don't think Winthrop has supported development of the course over the years, but I do know that just for our local public home course we need the approval of parks people before planting anything to make sure a) we're planting the right kind of tree for their desired growth; b) we're not planting in a place they don't want a tree; or c) we're not planting them too close to each other or other trees.

The first and third are pretty easy to deal with in a supportive environment, but the middle one - what if Winthrop doesn't want trees that shape the fairway of the disc golf course?

That is a good point about it being the Universities course, but then again, if I was Innova putting on a top flight even there, giving them feedback on how to grow the course over time and even donating the trees themselves, I would do so. They could have, maybe they did and they got rejected. But I highly doubt it. The tees have changed quite a bit over time, but I can't recall new trees being added to naturally toughen up the wide open lines.

I can't see a Univeristy saying, no we don't want more trees on our disc course. Sure they may want to pick and choose what kind and where, so be it. That's fine.

We're acting like planting trees is some miraculous expensive task. It's easy and can be cheap too. Heck have some students do it, I'm sure they would love to donate some time.

 

[ThrowBot]

Gotta love the thread drift.

"Let's talk about this disc golf tournament in Minnesota."

[300 posts later]

"THEY SHOULD PLANT MORE TREES AT A UNIVERSITY IN SOUTH CAROLINA!"

 

[Streets]

Gotta love the thread drift.

"Let's talk about this disc golf tournament in Minnesota."

[300 posts later]

"THEY SHOULD PLANT MORE TREES AT A UNIVERSITY IN SOUTH CAROLINA!"

My favorite are the Karens complaining about Nikko taking too much time to putt.

 

[oldmandiscer]

Gotta love the thread drift.

"Let's talk about this disc golf tournament in Minnesota."

[300 posts later]

"THEY SHOULD PLANT MORE TREES AT A UNIVERSITY IN SOUTH CAROLINA!"

Not really a drift, it pertains to the design of the Preserve versus other tournaments. Ropes, no ropes. It's all on topic. :thmbup:

 

[sandelius]

That's a much erroneous throw though then throwing 500 feet and skipping to the left of a rope. Luck should be taken out of the game while still making it challenging without stupid ropes or silly clowns mouths for mandos.

It's simply a bad course or design if you have to add ropes. JMO.

If you miss 100-200 feet wide fairway on 500 feet drive by going 1 feet over OB line then what's the problem? Look at the width of the fairways in Preserve. All rough should have been OB in there.

 

[ChrisWoj]

I can't see a Univeristy saying, no we don't want more trees on our disc course. Sure they may want to pick and choose what kind and where, so be it. That's fine.

I think you are dramatically underestimating typical university behavior with regard to something like landscaping of the property. Getting a bench shifted five feet is a titanic effort at times. If Winthrop doesn't have a year-round particular image of a fairway that matches up with what Innova wants for the Stadium Course - there's no way they're getting trees there. Winthrop won't even keep all of the Stadium Course holes in year round, I'd be shocked if they're interested in landscaping for those same holes at all. With or without donated trees and such. I'm just basing this on what seems typical to me having attended a few Universities and worked closely with administration on issues both related and unrelated to disc golf across the past decade in grad school stints.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

My favorite are the Karens complaining about Nikko taking too much time to putt.

You would think it dramatically affected people's lives based on the constant complaints.

 

[ToddL]

If you miss 100-200 feet wide fairway on 500 feet drive by going 1 feet over OB line then what's the problem? Look at the width of the fairways in Preserve. All rough should have been OB in there.

There's a definite tightrope to walk there. The ability to scramble is a vital skill in disc golf. You don't necessarily want to rope off all the rough as OB. Sure it costs a stroke, but then the players get to take their spot back on the fairway with an easy run up and an easy shot shape. Leaving them in the bushes means they might have to make a standstill, stretched out, off-angle shot. If they execute their scramble well, then they should get marginally rewarded.
But on the other hand, you're right that a lot of these shots didn't suffer any punishment for being off-line. Tall grass isn't much punishment. Thick bushes can be. You have to pick and choose where you put the OB line such that you're still forcing the players to scramble sometimes and take an OB stroke at other times.

 

[oldmandiscer]

I think you are dramatically underestimating typical university behavior with regard to something like landscaping of the property. Getting a bench shifted five feet is a titanic effort at times. If Winthrop doesn't have a year-round particular image of a fairway that matches up with what Innova wants for the Stadium Course - there's no way they're getting trees there. Winthrop won't even keep all of the Stadium Course holes in year round, I'd be shocked if they're interested in landscaping for those same holes at all. With or without donated trees and such. I'm just basing this on what seems typical to me having attended a few Universities and worked closely with administration on issues both related and unrelated to disc golf across the past decade in grad school stints.

Of course red tape would be involved, yes I get your point. It may be difficult to jump through the hoops. They likely would want to know what kind of trees and where they are going. Still it is not at all being over critical not see the course progress overtime. Less ropes, more trees.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Of course red tape would be involved, yes I get your point. It may be difficult to jump through the hoops. They likely would want to know what kind of trees and where they are going. Still it is not at all being over critical not see the course progress overtime. Less ropes, more trees.

Your post count.


Nice.

 

[BillFleming]

Your post count.


Nice.

Chris - maybe I'm missing something here? What's his post count got to do with anything? Is it too low to have an opinion? Or (most likely) was his post count some special number when you made the post (it's 71 at my viewing)?

I'm just trying to figure out what I'm missing about his post count that you noticed and niced.

 

[swhite]

Chris - maybe I'm missing something here? What's his post count got to do with anything? Is it too low to have an opinion? Or (most likely) was his post count some special number when you made the post (it's 71 at my viewing)?

I'm just trying to figure out what I'm missing about his post count that you noticed and niced.

oldmandiscer's post count is currently 71. But, if you view the list of all his posts, you will see this the post above was #69. So, most likely ChrisWoj's comment refers to the sophomoric connotations of that number.