You can always strain your pronator teres muscle and be reduced to backhands only like me rn.
-
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
Do I need really understable discs?
- Thread starter jupiterboy
- Start date
In my experience the more overstable the disc, the longer it rolls. They resist turning over on the ground and fading out better than understable molds.
If anyone wants to see this theory in action just check out my zone os test on my youtube page. freakishly long rollers, from a putter of all things.
Both can go really far. But it's rare to find someone who's actually tried backhand rollers with firebirds, predators, XXX, fireballs, motions etc. They go far and straight.
jenb
* Ace Member *
Are you releasing them anhyzer? Or are you able to get these discs to flip?
Art Stryker
Bogey Member
- Joined
- May 9, 2023
- Messages
- 85
Understable is essential. Forehand rollers out of the woods that go right instead of left and good turnover shots. I carry a driver,fairway,mid,and a putter for turnovers. Just depends on the situation.
QFT.
For rollers that don't flip over, overstable is better. they resist turning over on a roll much better than understable.
Anny.
What I'm saying is if you give me a roadrunner and a firebird, I can roll them each pretty far (well past 400'). But how they get there is different.
Roadrunner takes a hyzer flip, which is more prone to fading out early (i.e. rolling all the way over) sooner than I want, and has a lower margin of error in general.
The Firebird will need to be thrown on a steep anhyzer, but it will hold the release angle, and will fight flipping over all the way until towards the very end. This makes it very predictable to work with and gives it a straight overall roll path.
Skip a minute into this video to see me rolling the Zone OS. You can plainly see their roll path is much different from something like an Aviar thrown a similar way:
In my experience very few people ever experiment with rolling overstable discs, so people are sometimes surprised as how they work.
Personally I like stable discs for backhand rollers the best, not understable or overstable. Easier to stand up than overstable discs, but more predictable than understable discs. But very OS molds have some ridiculous distsnce potential and freaky straight roll paths.
Last edited:
Art Stryker
Bogey Member
- Joined
- May 9, 2023
- Messages
- 85
Never tried a overstable disc for backhand rollers. I've only used them for forehand rollers. I'll have to experiment with one of my old Teebirds
Spectacledbear
Birdie Member
My whole bag is essentially flippy. I was attending some weekly DG the other day and the players on my cards were surprised that my drives always flipped up so much. It looked like they were trying to emulate pros by throwing more stable discs than necessary. Approach flicks were always hyzering out early because they were throwing toros, zones etc, same with their drives. Meanwhile i was out approaching / driving them on the woods section with a DX teebird and a 150g Armadillo.
Brychanus
* Ace Member *
I'm enjoying seeing some new energy in a few recent threads!
I read what everyone wrote and had a couple things to add. I think this all depends on your goals and where you currently are.
I mean, there's a lot of wisdom in this, and IMO no shame.
You've got folks on the other end like Mike C who is a young, athletic crusher able to rip OS stuff on anny with good effect (roller OS trick works btw). You've got other folks chiming in closer to 3P or Mike C or in between. I'm somewhere splitting the difference between 3P and Mike C. I have access to ~400' distance lines, but I rarely golf with them and am still conservative while nursing some body issues. I also am developing my mechanics on a hyzer swing plane, and still find it easier (control-wise and posturally) to throw hyzer. So I'll talk from that perspective.
I am always working on my distance form to the extent my body can take it, but I golf much more conservatively to my benefit. If I see a 600' hole, I am happy to split it in two with two 300' shots with a Comet or driver hyzer than try to overextend and risk OB, etc.
In the field I am usually working on distance form, and I spend a lot of time getting loose and testing angles and aim at different apexes. On the course, I am playing conservative to a "stock" hyzer release angle every time I can, and modifying the apex as needed. I let the disc do the rest of the work as often as possible.
Since I play mostly in the woods and now seek courses with longer holes, I had a "happy accident" from my long run strategy that has immensely helped my game. Calvin is famous for his blistering tunnel shots. I've obviously got nowhere near his stuff, but I envied his ability to take wooded courses apart repeatably. How could I do what he does but with my form and armspeed? It just so happens that most wooded lines 300-350' or so near me require pretty good "laserbeam" control. Too high, left, right, or low (elevation) is death.
It just so happened that these shots are well-handled with me releasing on my preferred 20-30 deg. hyzer with an Avenger SS at 60-80% momentum/effort. Every time I have a tunnel with a low ceiling, I just aim to throw the same exact shot at whatever apex I need. The disc is a little "fast" on the short end of the range, but not if I have good control and need it to stay low to the ground, and the placement is very reliable on a line with almost no left to right movement because it is flipping up during most of its flight. Then it just drops where I want it to.
Two weekends ago I hit the placement 4/4 times. Hole 18 from the long tee was arguably the hardest technical par 4 on the course. It's a par 510' with a straight low ceiling tunnel shot with guardian trees at ~300', then numerous scraggly exceptionally low ceiling obstacles the last 200'. You ideally want to be 320-350' out juking all the tunnel stuff. Landing too left is brush death. Landing too right takes away most of the birdie upshots. I was in position somewhat past the guardian trees after the drive, laced the only "good" low ceiling upshot gap with a standstill, then predictably missed my C1 in reg putt to collect my par. I was still pretty happy with that after a clean round with some newfound birdies and went back to my putting basket. Now I actually look forward to those laser beam lines because they don't scare me anymore.
When I want to stretch distance, I'll air on the mellow distance driver side and rely on a hyzerflip n ride. I decide if I want to take a bit off of a mellow driver for more fade/placement, or club up to more OS and throw harder/different angle etc. If I'm feeling good and throwing particularly well and the hole is forgiving, I'll enjoy a rip or two per round.
The point of this story is that anything you do on the course is relative to your ability and goals now, and that might change according to your goals later. At a certain swing power, I stop being able to predict the turn of my flipper tunnel fairways, and slot in something more OS (usually Avenger ss -> Undertaker -> Thunderbird/Firebird for me). Maybe in 3 months I'll leave this strategy behind me, or maybe I'll realize it's exactly how I like to put birdies in play on most wooded holes and do it sustainably as I get older.
Last edited:
jupiterboy
Eagle Member
- Joined
- May 6, 2021
- Messages
- 889
Most of our courses are these sort of wooded, tight shots you are talking about. Sometimes the open shots are the ones I don't know what to do with. I've got an astroturf practice field with frequent heavy winds and that allows me to work with height.
I have two Avenger SS discs—a flippy ESP and maybe a Z that is more reliable. I don't bag them because Sidewinder has that spot ATM.
Part of my issue is on the approach end, where I have Wizards and Zones. The Sol counters that whole situation, and allows me to slip through tight gaps at a pretty extreme hyzer and once flat or slightly turned, the glide makes for flat landings. That feel very different than powering up my Jawbreaker Zone (my straightest upproach). I'm often struggling off the tee when I have a strong tailwind. These discs (Underworld) round out some possibilities in that situation.
Brychanus
* Ace Member *
Yeah, I think it's interesting how individual slots/choices vary. The drivers that gel best for me usually are a combination of what feels good in my hand and gets the flight I want without feeling like I'm forcing too many adjustments to the disc. Just a personal preference. As my game/throwing changes I'm willing to go back to previous molds sometimes and am often pleased to find I can use them a lot better. Adjusting all these choices for wind takes time too, and there's the conventional wisdom more US for tailwind and more OS for headwind. I am glutton for punishment so I also spent some time throwing neutral discs in windy conditions on purpose to better understand how it knocks them around and glides or stalls them, which made me much better appreciate when and why to swap more OS or US.
jupiterboy
Eagle Member
- Joined
- May 6, 2021
- Messages
- 889
My first Avenger SS was a fav., but was not with me long. The replacements seem very different. The ESP version seems floppy and flippy, and the Z has a thick flight plate and seems to not like to push forward like the old Titanium.
I have almost always carried a Star Cheetah, which is the most basic starter driver in a plastic that is a bit more OS. That is what has been getting me through the tailwind drives. That's a -2/+2 if I recall. With a 20 mph tailwind, I could still use something a bit more flippy. I also find it likes to throw that -2 turn out and widen the right side of the shot, which also gets me into trouble. The Avenger SS always seemed, when I threw it well, to have a slow, flat wander over to the right without much sense of wanting to come back. The Underworld flies more like a less stable Eagle L, in that it will, eventually, given enough height, want to fade a little. It also seems like maybe my first roller disc. The Sol is a different beast, slower than the Comet that you throw. It reminds me a bit of one of my first discs—a DX XD. It's a little more rounded nose, but very familiar in a way. It likes to flip up flat and glide, and will get a lot of use AND give me a good tool for dialing in release angles, which feels like the thing to be refining at the moment.
Brychanus
* Ace Member *
I don't mow through a ton of molds/plastics these days, but I definitely believe in run-to-run variability and it's super noticeable (to me) on the understable end of the spectrum. When messing with understable plastics it can be frustrating to find the interaction between how you throw and the desired effect at first and for a while after that, and people end up with different preferences/synergies in their game. E.g., I had put the Avengers on the shelf for a while thinking it was too squirrely, but as I developed better body control I realized what I was doing was occasionally cranking it too close to flat or even anhyzer with poor release point/angle/trajectory/nose control. Then as I improved I still noticed meaningful differences across runs etc. I'll just muse in writing since I love the topic of understable plastics.
When I eventually discovered I swing for the highest and easiest power at between 20-30 degrees hyzer and learned to throw more understable molds at that angle at less than max power, I realized some of the older Avengers were now very controllable, but other plastics/runs did really seem to just want to get away from me/turn right unless I was throwing at like half power. I found a handful of "sweet spot" ones that behaved well at the power & angle I swing for the 300-350 range where I wanted to use them (you can apply similar logic to any distance range). I then learned I could also throw them on the same angle harder or shallower angles for less power for control shots in low ceiling conditions like I mentioned above. If I pull out the rare near max power shot I am probably not throwing an Avenger unless it's some kind of uphill right turning line or something, or something very steep uphill where I want it to drop on a dime after reaching the apex. So I really just learned it fits my true "control driver" slot for tight conditions right now, and I'm happy to switch to something OS as soon as it makes sense.
Psychology matters - it really is a "feel" thing - they some discs fit slightly better in my hand than the various other things I've cycled through, so I immediately feel more confident that I have a handle on the disc when I step up to throw. I also think that there's a positive feedback loop you develop with discs when you find a "good one." You come to cherish it and just look forward to throwing it. I also eventually lost each of my three favorite Pharaohs from the same run that I used for controlled, easy distance, and I have never found an exactly comparable disc yet. I still miss each one of them. Forgot the first and best one somewhere somehow, threw one into water I didn't know was there, and one bounced off a tree into the thickest brush I've ever seen never to be found again - can you tell I'm scarred?
I have never regretted time in the field with understable slower discs like Comets or Sols. Personally I throw them in max weight and treat them as training discs. It has the benefit of gaining a lot of mastery over a single disc that helps me on the course, and I still learn a lot about weak areas in how I throw fundamentally from them. Over time I learned to predict how certain drivers will fly just by throwing Comets. If you can learn to throw slow understable discs far, I promise - it really teaches you something about throwing farther in general. Eventually you get into a power range where you legitimately probably want to rely on more OS for various reasons, but most humans are not there, and almost none of them start there!
Everything I just wrote here is part of a "finesse" game that did not come easy for me and kind of fell into my lap while developing distance form, just like everything else in this weird game. So IMHO try the sidewinders, cheetahs, etc. until you learn what you can. Balance it with how much you want to push your form and technique against just getting out there and throwing for fun (I'm just one of the weirdos that finds working on form as fun as playing rounds at this point).
This is definitely not how everyone develops, but is one anecdote for the pile. I'm also mindful that anything written can be easily misinterpreted by onlookers, so to be clear I'm not saying "don't throw OS discs" or "only throw putters until you throw 500'" or whatever trope. Just reflecting on some lessons learned starting out as a 100' injury prone thrower and having come a long way from that.
You bastard.
Ever since I read this I haven't cashed a glitch approach.
Been close though
