Chucker60
Birdie Member
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2022
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- 272
Hey, me too.
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Hilariously Bad Backhand Form, Please Advise
- Thread starter ninjabq
- Start date
Hey, me too.
With the help of these fine coaches I'm averaging 225-250 with a max around 275. At this rate I should be at 1000 feet in a couple of years!
Just keep on pushing bud! The fun part about learning, is getting those "AHA!" moments.
Because of permanent injury, i can't do fieldwork, but merely play a round or two a month. Yesterday i realised that I've somehow changed my grip to the worse. I spend a good 10 minutes, just shadow throwing to find my comfortable grip again. That alone, really got some pop on my throws.
Keep on filming yourself and post it in here!
Because of permanent injury, i can't do fieldwork, but merely play a round or two a month. Yesterday i realised that I've somehow changed my grip to the worse. I spend a good 10 minutes, just shadow throwing to find my comfortable grip again. That alone, really got some pop on my throws.
Keep on filming yourself and post it in here!
stuffed 5 lbs of weight into this thing, im sure that will have zero negative ramifications when I actually use it for camping next time
marching around (I think this is what you mean?) and trying different arm slots
battering ram (gotta get through the first half for me to stop looking so stiff)
I did some hammer throws and disc throws too, video not worth posting. My throws were much more linear (as in, in front of me) today than the other day so that is at least an improvement. But still having the issue of shifting my weight while letting the hammer/disc pull me taught into the reachback. Still very spinny.
On the bright side I played hole 1 of this course on my way back to the car from the field and birdied it for the first time ever so that's something
marching around (I think this is what you mean?) and trying different arm slots
battering ram (gotta get through the first half for me to stop looking so stiff)
I did some hammer throws and disc throws too, video not worth posting. My throws were much more linear (as in, in front of me) today than the other day so that is at least an improvement. But still having the issue of shifting my weight while letting the hammer/disc pull me taught into the reachback. Still very spinny.
On the bright side I played hole 1 of this course on my way back to the car from the field and birdied it for the first time ever so that's something
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Brychanus
* Ace Member *
Looks a little better.
Feet are moving but I mean also march like swinging the ram in rhythm while walking but by bit tired target. Stay in balance and rhythm.
Keep minding what SW last posted about posture. When you swing, dont rush out of the backswing or the peak of the swing. You should feel like the ram is slow and almost pausing levitated briefly behind you, stretching you in the core a bit. Feel the rhythm pulling you and find the pause at the peak each way.
Feet are moving but I mean also march like swinging the ram in rhythm while walking but by bit tired target. Stay in balance and rhythm.
Keep minding what SW last posted about posture. When you swing, dont rush out of the backswing or the peak of the swing. You should feel like the ram is slow and almost pausing levitated briefly behind you, stretching you in the core a bit. Feel the rhythm pulling you and find the pause at the peak each way.
Brychanus
* Ace Member *
*bit by bit toward target
Battering ram drills - I noticed in the previous video from the other day that I was bringing my arms down long before I was planted so I tried to focus on the timing there
I think this was my longest hammer throw, hard to tell because I switched fields. Still very rotational
Best throw of the day, ~250m, was also trying to focus on crush the can
Worst throw of the day, although it did go ~280, lol
I think this was my longest hammer throw, hard to tell because I switched fields. Still very rotational
Best throw of the day, ~250m, was also trying to focus on crush the can
Worst throw of the day, although it did go ~280, lol
Brychanus
* Ace Member *
Standstill: keep letting the upper body counterrotate as you complete the shift. Right now you are landing but have already completed the backswing so everything comes though together - missing lag and elastic tension thru the back and oblique slings in your core which is much of the power of the throw.
The way you shift your weight is part of what's preventing the right backswing mechanics in your upper body. Looks like you have a little too much "stomp" and not enough "crush" in your plant. Just relax and let your full weight land on the leg. Leverage off the ground to lead the swing.
It's pretty much exactly what he's doing here, just adding the rear leg to drop from. Hop and drop then swing. Then do the same thing "dropping" relaxed off the rear leg.
The way you shift your weight is part of what's preventing the right backswing mechanics in your upper body. Looks like you have a little too much "stomp" and not enough "crush" in your plant. Just relax and let your full weight land on the leg. Leverage off the ground to lead the swing.
It's pretty much exactly what he's doing here, just adding the rear leg to drop from. Hop and drop then swing. Then do the same thing "dropping" relaxed off the rear leg.
Okay so I had an interesting revelation today, unfortunately not related to the lag/tension issue but still interesting. Due to a combination of unexpected rain and overgrown grass that I didn't want to throw into, I decided to do an extended putting session and then slow motion drill, in the hopes that capturing my attempt at slow motion would help me figure out the lag/tension thing. (I also did some of the hop thing from the last gif you posted, but didn't get very far with it - will try more later this week.)
Here is one of my first few attempts at the slow motion drill.
As anyone who has thumbed through this thread knows, a constant issue has been over-rotation, and especially in the last few weeks I have been hooking stuff to the right pretty consistently because of this. Looking at this vid, we can see that even in slow motion I am overrotating, which points to some fundamental issue.
Rewatching the drill video, I noticed that SW's rear leg slides backwards to help the counter balance (as he talks about in the OLD video)
Looking at my video, my rear leg slides out and forward instead
So my next step was to forcibly and actively move my rear foot backwards (yes I know that's not how it works in the actual throw), and voila, impossible to rotate the hips and shoulders nearly as far before the arm comes out
Looks more obvious from the rear
So what's the conclusion here? Something about my posture or weight shift is causing me to not get off the rear foot, or something, and that's preventing my hips and shoulders from being able to "brake" correctly, causing overrotation. I think this might just be more crush the can and OLD to solve but appreciate any other advice as always.
(Aforementioned "brake" thought goes back to this video)
Here is one of my first few attempts at the slow motion drill.
As anyone who has thumbed through this thread knows, a constant issue has been over-rotation, and especially in the last few weeks I have been hooking stuff to the right pretty consistently because of this. Looking at this vid, we can see that even in slow motion I am overrotating, which points to some fundamental issue.
Rewatching the drill video, I noticed that SW's rear leg slides backwards to help the counter balance (as he talks about in the OLD video)
Looking at my video, my rear leg slides out and forward instead
So my next step was to forcibly and actively move my rear foot backwards (yes I know that's not how it works in the actual throw), and voila, impossible to rotate the hips and shoulders nearly as far before the arm comes out
Looks more obvious from the rear
So what's the conclusion here? Something about my posture or weight shift is causing me to not get off the rear foot, or something, and that's preventing my hips and shoulders from being able to "brake" correctly, causing overrotation. I think this might just be more crush the can and OLD to solve but appreciate any other advice as always.
(Aforementioned "brake" thought goes back to this video)
Also meant to add that obviously forcing that rear foot back caused me to have a bunch of other posture issues in the slow motion drill lol, hopefully it is clear that I don't think anything was "correct" other than the revelation about that rear foot counterbalance issue.
Brychanus
* Ace Member *
I think achieving & loading the tension/coil into the backswing is part of what ideally gets you balanced onto that rear leg before shifting off. You can also learn to isolate it in slow swing drills. SW/others agree/disagree?
Was trying to do some OLD hammer/discs in the field today when I noticed I was spinning on the ball of my foot rather than the heel. Went back to see if I've always been doing that:
Looks like something has changed causing my form to be more spinny, and definitely less balanced through the throw. I looked back and there's some disc throws from 4/13 that look like I'm on the heel. On 4/19 the hammer throws are from the ball, and everything thereafter I'm basically always spinning on the ball and looking very imbalanced through the swing and follow-through.
Not exactly sure what this is a symptom of but probably need more can crushing...
Looks like something has changed causing my form to be more spinny, and definitely less balanced through the throw. I looked back and there's some disc throws from 4/13 that look like I'm on the heel. On 4/19 the hammer throws are from the ball, and everything thereafter I'm basically always spinning on the ball and looking very imbalanced through the swing and follow-through.
Not exactly sure what this is a symptom of but probably need more can crushing...
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2008
- Messages
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Practice on concrete.
Been pretty busy so haven't been able to get in as much fieldwork as I had been despite playing a few rounds. At any rate, I'm still stuck around a max distance of ~275, which works out to maybe 225-250 on the course, which you can imagine is lacking.
One thing I want to work on is the "getting stuck on the back foot" thing, which I think is major issue with my lower body movement, so I've been doing a lot of open-to-close crush-the-can type work. I think I'm improving there, although will post the video for critique, but also have some other issues I need help addressing.
1. This is about the extent to which I ever form a pocket. I've seen a lot said lately about forming a "deep pocket", and of course there is the old right pec drill. I assume what I have going here is not ideal. What do I need to do to improve the formation of the pocket? Just swing looser?
2. As we can see from this fun composite image, there is a ton of wobble in my throw. Doesn't matter if I'm throwing a putter or driver, power grip or fan grip. I'm not convinced that it's not a grip issue (which we've gone over a few times in this thread), but I am sure it is also an OAT issue. What drills/etc can I do to work on this issue?
It's amusing because I know I also need to work on swing plane and nose angle, but it doesn't help when I accomplish 15 different nose angles in the same throw!
As always, thanks in advance!
One thing I want to work on is the "getting stuck on the back foot" thing, which I think is major issue with my lower body movement, so I've been doing a lot of open-to-close crush-the-can type work. I think I'm improving there, although will post the video for critique, but also have some other issues I need help addressing.
1. This is about the extent to which I ever form a pocket. I've seen a lot said lately about forming a "deep pocket", and of course there is the old right pec drill. I assume what I have going here is not ideal. What do I need to do to improve the formation of the pocket? Just swing looser?
2. As we can see from this fun composite image, there is a ton of wobble in my throw. Doesn't matter if I'm throwing a putter or driver, power grip or fan grip. I'm not convinced that it's not a grip issue (which we've gone over a few times in this thread), but I am sure it is also an OAT issue. What drills/etc can I do to work on this issue?
It's amusing because I know I also need to work on swing plane and nose angle, but it doesn't help when I accomplish 15 different nose angles in the same throw!
As always, thanks in advance!
Brychanus
* Ace Member *
Been pretty busy so haven't been able to get in as much fieldwork as I had been despite playing a few rounds. At any rate, I'm still stuck around a max distance of ~275, which works out to maybe 225-250 on the course, which you can imagine is lacking.
One thing I want to work on is the "getting stuck on the back foot" thing, which I think is major issue with my lower body movement, so I've been doing a lot of open-to-close crush-the-can type work. I think I'm improving there, although will post the video for critique, but also have some other issues I need help addressing.
1. This is about the extent to which I ever form a pocket. I've seen a lot said lately about forming a "deep pocket", and of course there is the old right pec drill. I assume what I have going here is not ideal. What do I need to do to improve the formation of the pocket? Just swing looser?
2. As we can see from this fun composite image, there is a ton of wobble in my throw. Doesn't matter if I'm throwing a putter or driver, power grip or fan grip. I'm not convinced that it's not a grip issue (which we've gone over a few times in this thread), but I am sure it is also an OAT issue. What drills/etc can I do to work on this issue?
It's amusing because I know I also need to work on swing plane and nose angle, but it doesn't help when I accomplish 15 different nose angles in the same throw!
As always, thanks in advance!
Love the disc overlay!
I think you are still having trouble fully balancing in the tilted axis on the rear leg before shifting forward, which is creating problems with residual "rising" front shoulder and some difficulty developing space in your pocket (your point 1). You should keep working on that. It's worth the trouble.
I think your point 1 and 2 are connected to an extent. Right pec drill is good if you have a decent weight shift & balance on the front leg when you swing. In addition, if you have grip/wrist/arm tension issues (not the right balance and sequence of looseness/getting pulled taut and then strong late contraction), you'll end up with funky pocket issues. It took me a long time to "feel" those issues and sometimes they're not entirely obvious on camera, even though they are often related to problems we see on camera. Even if you get that, the shift and balance off the rear leg matters because technically if you don't shift off the rear leg in the correct balance, your posture is collapsing before you even shift forward, and then everything afterwards is a compensatory swing path and can make it more likely you get weird paths, bad rotations through the arm, and more OAT.
OAT:
1. Off the bat it's important to remember that some degree of OAT for drives can be acceptable. E.g. wiggins has a ballistic, freewheeling throw with OAT at the release, that stables up due to gyroscopic in flight effects and the disc overstability. He's not trying to "finesse" drives. He's annihilating them more like a freewheeling sledge toss.
2. However, while developing I think OAT is often related to problems in grip, the swing path, and posture for the majority of players, including problems maximizing that right looseness/tautness/contractile action of the arm as the swing gets to the arm.
Things that helped me the most with OAT, YMMV:
-Swing them weighted levers like hammers. I needed to physically strike a heavy boxing bag with a hammer to get the kinetic feedback.
-Take the hammer away and let the whole arm feel heavy like a sledge. Let the hand in particular feel heavy at the end of the arm in Dingle Arm - that little bit of tension and "tendon bounce" and redirection through the wrist was incredibly hard for me to learn, but is an essential part of force transfer. I found it impossible to learn just with discs probably due to my learning history.
-Clean up the move off the rear leg and relax and allow your posture to solve many problems at once. The better you shift, the more space you have to swing safely for power, and coupled with my first point, the arm will start to help redirect and leverage the disc back out over time with less micromanagement. It makes it easier for the disc to naturally find depth in the pocket, which is the same as using your posture to create space for the disc to direct into, then redirect out of. That concept is what links pendulum throwers to "move past the disc" throwers. I needed a ton of drill work to even start to get this to work and each body finds different optima. Patience. As a warning, I have seen countless players on these forums now spend way too much time focused on the arm without correcting posture and shift issues. You know this, but pitchers throw with their whole body with mastery of huge CoG shifts and leg and core action, not just their arm. It would be weird if pitchers spent months not moving their body just focused on their arm, and usually learned to do it while young when their little bodies liked to move a lot more than the average adult. Move better to swing better, including your heavy arm.
-Throw a ton of neutral-ish discs on distance lines in open fields. You'll get a body feel and visual feedback for when discs are getting torqued over vs. when they're getting an acceptable release and full flight. I've gotten the most out of 175+g Comets and comparable drivers. Comets are highly rewarding for clean power and highly punishing for sloppy power, so they became a permanent part of my form development. I tend to throw drivers that have Comet-like flights and obviously go farther on good releases. As your power increases you can decide if you want to stick with that or go after a different style.
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- Joined
- Nov 2, 2008
- Messages
- 21,994
Your front foot is leading your stride instead of your mAss leading and the foot catching up later/quicker/kicking into the plant. Hershyzer drills/kick the can.
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2008
- Messages
- 21,994
Do that, but you need to keep swinging the arm/shoulder further back while striding forward instead of moving forward together.
