PDGA announces World Championships to split. Open / Age Protected

[JC17393]

^^ Exactly, DavidSauls.

McBeth would be 1x champ if all his championships were 4 rounds. MJ would have won in 2012, Wysocki in 2014, and Will this year.

This is a flawed argument since none of those events were played with the expectation that they'd only last four rounds. If those years had been only four rounds, EVERYONE would have approached it differently, which would have most likely have resulted in something different than what happened.

It really isn't about the number of holes being played so much as the number of throws being made. Take two courses, one with an SSA of 64 and one with an SSA of 54. If you play four rounds shooting 1000 rated golf on each course, you're going to end up making 40 more throws on the longer course over four rounds. It's nearly enough to equal a fifth round on the short course. Increase the SSA difference between the two only shrinks the gap more.

But with the old Worlds format, these players were more apt to play on the SSA 54 course than the SSA 64 course because of time and the need to share courses with lesser skilled divisions. New format allows for more challenging and skill-appropriate courses, which should lessen the need for so many holes to determine a "true" winner.

 

[biscoe]

It really isn't about the number of holes being played so much as the number of throws being made. Take two courses, one with an SSA of 64 and one with an SSA of 54. If you play four rounds shooting 1000 rated golf on each course, you're going to end up making 40 more throws on the longer course over four rounds. It's nearly enough to equal a fifth round on the short course. Increase the SSA difference between the two only shrinks the gap more.

It also diminishes the importance of putting since the ratio of shots to putts will be higher on the higher ssa course.

 

[wolfmandragon]

It also diminishes the importance of putting since the ratio of shots to putts will be higher on the higher ssa course.

Putting is already too easy. Our baskets are great in parks for families to come have a group outing, but even for amateurs, they are too easy.
Maybe coming from ball golf changes my perception, but a 30 fun putt should be very hard even for a pro.
Majors should be played with bull's-eye baskets or unchained, one of the two.

 

[TimSyl]

Putting is already too easy. Our baskets are great in parks for families to come have a group outing, but even for amateurs, they are too easy.
Maybe coming from ball golf changes my perception, but a 30 fun putt should be very hard even for a pro.
Majors should be played with bull's-eye baskets or unchained, one of the two.

Agree with the dragon. Took me several years of working my butt off to get to scratch golf and be able to putt consistently in golf. Took me a few months, at 48 years old, to be able to make 6/7 of 10 30' putts in disc golf.

 

[AndyJB]

Oh, knock it off.

Disc golf isnt easy as is. So tired of random golfers coming in and screaming that baskets are too big. Not only does that have next to nothing to do with this topic, it's a dumb idea anyway. Baskets are fine as they are. Switch every course over to Bullseyes and by the end of the year the top guys will still be banging automatic 45 footers and casual players will quit gor something that is fun instead of frustrating.

 

[thrembo]

Oh, knock it off.

Disc golf isnt easy as is. So tired of random golfers coming in and screaming that baskets are too big. Not only does that have next to nothing to do with this topic, it's a dumb idea anyway. Baskets are fine as they are. Switch every course over to Bullseyes and by the end of the year the top guys will still be banging automatic 45 footers and casual players will quit gor something that is fun instead of frustrating.

Yeah.

Quit overthinking disc golf, and go play it, and have fun already! (And leave the basket size alone).

 

[IHearChains]

So would the fields have to be much smaller so that both MPO and FPO would fit on the same course? Or, MPO will be on one course with the best media facilities, and the smaller FPO field will be on another, mostly empty course with few spectators around? Would the smaller field be expected to drive to the other course for awards? I get some of the points people are making about Semis/Final 9s. But like them or not Semis/Final 9s have a practical advantage of allowing FPO and MPO to converge in one location. Also seemed to give FPO players an opportunity to showcase their skills with an audience (both in person and in video coverage) that they wouldn't have otherwise had. The new format seems likely to decrease FPO visibility ... unintended consequences...

 

[Cgkdisc]

- Putting is too easy at the top level not just from a scoring standpoint but it's also not compelling to watch.
- Smaller baskets will not make putting more compelling to watch and may not spread scores better even if scores go up.
- Other ideas are percolating that will increase putting challenge only for pros with more drama for spectators with no need to modify existing baskets. Stay tuned.

 

[Understable]

"This will also open up the potential for more International bids."

As much as I'd like to see the big guns compete for the big one in Europe, I don't think this change will affect the chances of that really happening.

Actually there is probably a bid for a Pro Worlds in western Canada going to happen.

 

[DavidSauls]

So would the fields have to be much smaller so that both MPO and FPO would fit on the same course? Or, MPO will be on one course with the best media facilities, and the smaller FPO field will be on another, mostly empty course with few spectators around? Would the smaller field be expected to drive to the other course for awards? I get some of the points people are making about Semis/Final 9s. But like them or not Semis/Final 9s have a practical advantage of allowing FPO and MPO to converge in one location. Also seemed to give FPO players an opportunity to showcase their skills with an audience (both in person and in video coverage) that they wouldn't have otherwise had. The new format seems likely to decrease FPO visibility ... unintended consequences...

I don't know what the plan is, but if they go with tee times, they can get more people on one course, if not at the same time, at least the same day. They could even interweave the FPO and MPO lead cards.

 

[JC17393]

So would the fields have to be much smaller so that both MPO and FPO would fit on the same course? Or, MPO will be on one course with the best media facilities, and the smaller FPO field will be on another, mostly empty course with few spectators around? Would the smaller field be expected to drive to the other course for awards? I get some of the points people are making about Semis/Final 9s. But like them or not Semis/Final 9s have a practical advantage of allowing FPO and MPO to converge in one location. Also seemed to give FPO players an opportunity to showcase their skills with an audience (both in person and in video coverage) that they wouldn't have otherwise had. The new format seems likely to decrease FPO visibility ... unintended consequences...

It would seem the plan for this new format is two courses, two pools of players, and tee times each day. There's no reason that the "A" pool, on the course with the "best media facilities" for the final round, can't contain both the top X number of Open players and the top X number of Women's players (just like they do now at Worlds for the semis and finals).

Also no reason that the tee times can't be arranged so that the Women's lead card is playing its round before the Open leaders begin theirs (just like they do with the Worlds final 9 now) so that full media and spectator attention can be put on them before it shifts to the Open finish.

No reason for FPO visibility to go down at all. In fact, there's opportunity for it to increase if they want it to.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I think the interesting dilemma by combining MPO and FPO is FPO either plays different tees or pins set for blue level or play the same gold layout as MPO and has a less competitive experience.

 

[wolfmandragon]

- Putting is too easy at the top level not just from a scoring standpoint but it's also not compelling to watch.
- Smaller baskets will not make putting more compelling to watch and may not spread scores better even if scores go up.
- Other ideas are percolating that will increase putting challenge only for pros with more drama for spectators with no need to modify existing baskets. Stay tuned.

I welcome new ideas other than changing baskets... That is why I like taking the chains off for majors, it costs the course owner nothing but time. I am very curious to see how to make putting more exciting for spectators

 

[DanJon]

- Putting is too easy at the top level not just from a scoring standpoint but it's also not compelling to watch.
- Smaller baskets will not make putting more compelling to watch and may not spread scores better even if scores go up.
- Other ideas are percolating that will increase putting challenge only for pros with more drama for spectators with no need to modify existing baskets. Stay tuned.

Blindfolds or fire rings?

Which is it?

 

[Cgkdisc]

I welcome new ideas other than changing baskets... That is why I like taking the chains off for majors, it costs the course owner nothing but time. I am very curious to see how to make putting more exciting for spectators

A preliminary test with ProPutt baskets (like Bullseyes and Makrsmans only with inner chains) didn't indicate a significant difference in scores when chain assemblies were switched from regular to smaller between rounds on the same course. So just having inner chains may not do much. And removing then replacing 216 chains on a course is not trivial when you consider the effort to open the S-hooks, if it's a newer model, an then re-pinch them so they don't snag fluky shots.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Blindfolds or fire rings?

Which is it?

Player must jump left or right with last contact point on their lie and release putt in the air. No difference closer or farther than 10m.

 

[teemkey]

Player must jump left or right with last contact point on their lie and release putt in the air. No difference closer or farther than 10m.

Ummm, a three meter hazard area circle around the target?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Figuring out ways to make putting for pros more compelling to watch will be one of the first questions addressed by the PDGA Game Development Team. Once we get things organized in the next month, we'll be sharing our initial ideas and soliciting other ideas from anyone. Some of these ideas will be included in our plans to work with TDs to test them starting sometime next year.

For example, one of the interesting ideas can be tested tomorrow on most courses since a basket tweak isn't involved at all. I think the better ideas will not stray too far from our current game and not appear gimmicky.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

Mandatory turbo putting.
JohnE would own it.

 

[wolfmandragon]

A preliminary test with ProPutt baskets (like Bullseyes and Makrsmans only with inner chains) didn't indicate a significant difference in scores when chain assemblies were switched from regular to smaller between rounds on the same course. So just having inner chains may not do much. And removing then replacing 216 chains on a course is not trivial when you consider the effort to open the S-hooks, if it's a newer model, an then re-pinch them so they don't snag fluky shots.

Point taken. All the courses in my area use innova so my assumption was to zip tie the chains up as the bogy band would hide it... But I was not thinking about the courses that use other models.