PDGA announces World Championships to split. Open / Age Protected

[jedijon]

The new putting rules incorporate tactics from Football.

The player with the lowest score may stand in front of the basket (but not within 10', and must always remain within 37cm of their mini). This player may attempt to deflect any incoming shots with theirs hands, body, or thrown discs. On their putt, the rest of the card will provide this service. The PDGA recommends carrying bandaids to treat headwounds.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Not so much a defensive option like above, but we've talked in the past whether your doubles partner should be allowed to hover near the basket when you were putting and would be allowed a single brush or tap to deflect the disc into the basket if needed, a little like Kan-Jam for those who have played it.

 

[kerplunk]

I think this has been mentioned in another thread, but what about blocking a certain portion of the basket to make a shot easier or harder depending on where your approach is. Something as simple as a triangular cloth attached to the top of the chains and basket could potentially achieve this. This would force more thought and accuracy in approach shots, like bolf, and could potentially also make the come-back more difficult if it lands on the wrong side of the basket. It should also usually still be possible to finesse a disc into the basket with little or no chains even from the "wrong" side, which adds an element of putting skill.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Some options along those lines are on our list. The trick will be finding a manufacturer or even TD interested in fabricating these blocking elements for 18-hole tournament tests. I think I might have posted something like the attached diagram before where two or three thin bars slightly bowed outward are temporarily attached to the outside of each basket. Doesn't reduce the target zone very much but will sometimes require slower, curving putts easier to see on camera and may increase putting scores. Could be more interesting to watch. Would likely make the approach shot landing more important.

 

[biscoe]

Paging Dr Fred...

 

[Broken Shoulder]

I like the idea of having to shape your putt.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Paging Dr Fred...

There's a fine line between blocking versus shaping. Not sure where that line is but maybe some will like to test this idea. There's a bowed out shape that retains the same sweet spot from any angle but simply requires a curved putt no different than if there are tree trunks to curve around on the green. In fact, the bar would deflect slightly wide putts into the basket increasing the sweet spot width.

 

[wolfmandragon]

I retract my idea if a 5 yard bunker circle as it would, as pointed out above, penalized good drives on certain holes.
I like the idea of putting a wedge shaped bunker behind all holes that would not interfere with OB.
This with the curved guard bars would make it more interesting.
We probably shouldn't use windmills regardless how much fun it would be.

 

[wolfmandragon]

Instead if bars, tow straps(wide tie downs)with quick release clips may be another good idea. This would be easy to test as it could be done with afew wraps of wide duck ttape.

 

[teemkey]

Other than natural obstructions, all these "make putting harder" ideas seem contrived, and IMO detract from the essence of the game. Altering the basket would impact aces, throw ins, and outside the circle putts (as would penalty areas near the target, either hazard or OB).

Frankly I think we need to accept and embrace drop ins if by doing so we can experience the final round, 18th hole drama during last year's Memorial.

 

[discRabbit]

See here: http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6598

 

[Jenga54]

Even though the things mentioned I believe are hokey and artificial - here's one.

Cut the circle in half through the basket, into two semi-circles. The disc may cross the intersecting line once, every pass through after that is OB or a stroke.

In the same line of thinking, there can be OB that is only OB After Tee shot (OBAT). You can land anywhere you want off the tee, but approaches, putts etc. that land there are OB. Allows for great tee shots, yet makes the putt interesting due to OB potential.

These feel just "made up" to me, and I guess if the pros and those watching want more exciting, I recommend building better courses, rather than implementing mini-golf half-the-basket-blocked-off style things.

I already think a ropes course is a bit of a stretch, but it makes sense in that you are creating OB by ropes instead of paving roads, so it's just cheaper but is a more standard construction of hole design. Instead of spending money on digging a sand pit, you just rope it off.

If I were on the PDGA board I would be OK with rule thingies that artificially create a course in a "cheaper" or "temporary" fashion, but given the time any money and land in the future could be built for "real"

Example would be the USDGC is a ropes course. I envision the fairways and in-bounds areas elevated 8" by wood or retaining wall. It creates real life in-bounds and OB areas that can be played by pros or ignored by ams. It's allowable to do ropes because it's cheaper and acceptable to the land owner to only be temporary.

 

[Jenga54]

In golf you have a ball flying through the air, but the difficulty comes from the LIE. What the terrain is between the tee and the hole. Water is definite OB, and white stakes make boundaries. Sand and Long Rough don't artificially add a stroke, they just add difficulty to the shot. Also, the hole changes places around the green to add or remove difficulty.

We have a game that plays through the air. We need to add elements that change the look from hole to hole as you travel through the air.

Why is there absolutely no discussion about making fairways "harder or more interesting to watch"? I think it's because it's just obvious how to do that. Add something to go over, around, through, in between, land before, land past,

Putting really isn't any different, why make up fake rules. Elevated baskets temporarily or permanently make putting harder.

Get some tree trunks that can be moved around and put them as "temp trees"

I also like the idea of having "low hanging trees" that force putts to come in low and hard. It's a real element and if a low and hard putt misses, it can miss by a lot by forcing the player out of using the normal high lobby putt.

 

[biscoe]

Other than natural obstructions, all these "make putting harder" ideas seem contrived, and IMO detract from the essence of the game.

a thousand times this...

 

[Cgkdisc]

Other than natural obstructions, all these "make putting harder" ideas seem contrived, and IMO detract from the essence of the game.

Many changes in sports were seen as contrived when they first were introduced. The basket was a contrivance when it first came about compared to hitting trees, posts and park benches. It looks like a Rube Goldberg contraption until you get used to it. Moving the extra point kick back in the NFL is one of the latest "contrivances."

 

[Jenga54]

I just think this seems backwards. We want a more exciting putting experiance, more interesting putter flying through the air experience.

A smaller basket doesn't change the flight of the putt, it just makes more misses. Blocking elements on the basket really just mimic blocking elements between the player and the basket like trees and bushes. You could also have horizontal bars across some of the basket that block high or low putts.

I don't know why we're arginging away the fact that we need better course design.

The Fountain course for the Memorial looks beautiful on camera but it's got some pretty boring holes. Some of those are elevated. Some could use a pillar for a temp tree in front, or on the popular landing side.

Some courses have great greens that force a good landing spot, or require very interesting putts.

If you have a well designed hole, basket pillars are probably worse. If you have a boring hole they help. So I would think it's not a standard feature.

If I were designing a new course and the standard basket had 3 pillars, I would'nt worry about green and approach design, it would all be wide open. The only design feature would be which way to spin the basket to face the bars the way I want.

So if the basket standardizes an element like this, I think it makes course design less important. If the basket bars are just optional on some holes, it is then just an artificial crutch for bad design.

I think it's important to focus on course construction, which will include some open greens on harder to reach pins, and more protected pins on easier to drive holes.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Jenga, these ideas are not necessarily for you, nor most of us posting here, but for top pro competitions. If anything new gets adopted (and that's definitely not a certainty), it must be able to be set up temporarily and on holes that may be mostly open and/or flat. Bringing in standardized portable posts is theoretically an option to emulate greens with obstacles. But clamping 2 or 3 bars temporarily on each basket would be easier to do in comparison so pros would have to shape at least some putts.

The more important question which has had little commentary so far is whether you would find any of these proposed tweaks more interesting to watch pros deal with even if you would not like to play them yourselves. It's a little like assessing your thoughts on island greens. Some people like to watch others struggle with them but don't necessarily prefer to play them in competition.

 

[Jenga54]

I understand that these are for pros and would not require the thousands of courses with tens of thousands of baskets to be retrofitted or anything like that. I just enjoy being vocal about things that I think will make the viewing better - I stream almost all the live tourneys that get aired, I love watching.

There's something to using standard equipment from the kids to the pros. 5 year old hockey players shoot at a 4x6 net just like the pros. The basketball hoop is the same size for all ages from the neighborhood to the pros. The height is adjusted for kids due to strength ability - like red or even green tees for the kids - but the goal is the same size.

I imagine it's pretty easy to test the triple bar putting theory. Get some of these pros together secretly in a gym and set up a basket and have them play HORSE and get a film crew. I think I can imagine what it'll look like. Actually I think it would be more fun to putt on one of these baskets than to watch. In the first person view, or maybe as a player standing there close, you can see what the putt needs to do.

On film, you might just see a bending putt come in, and sometimes bounce in, sometimes bounce out. When it bounces out I would think, "good putt, bad luck." Also, due to the design, I think it just moves the target area sideways a bit - If I had a bar in the middle, I'd aim to chain out wide right, and use the right bar to deflect it inwards to avoid the middle bar.


As I'm typing this I just watched the Eagle's place kicker doink a 50 yarder off the goal post - knowing this year they made the posts thinner by a little over 2 feet on each side. I can't say because I didn't play football so I never played on either standard size, but tweaks like this are done for a purpose, I understand. The goal of the goal post change was to create more misses. If the goal of putting is not more misses, but more interesting putts - either you add elements directly on the basket, or elements just outside of them.

I would prefer maybe 2" posts that are placed maybe 12"-24" away from the basket. These would provide the blocking element to force hyzer putts, while not providing a more direct bounce-in effect. The posts could be varying heights - some that are full basket height, some that are only 2/3 of chain height to allow high putts to drop over. They can also be placed strategically to give a better and worse landing area for putts to come in.

I probably like this option because it's mimicking small trees, instead of directly changing the basket design, but to me, the posts option maintains the essence of the game while temporarily at the designer's discretion adds difficulty and strategy to the green. Also, if the posts are painted a certain color, or are bright shiny sliver, it would be picked up better on camera than a thinner bar on the basket.

 

[scarpfish]

So many solutions in this thread in search of a problem. Granted, some of them are funny.

And just my two cents, but as long as some are committed to making disc golf more like ball golf, or doing things that they think will attract us an audience like ball golf, we're always going to be ball golf's little bitch. We would be better off trying to distinguish ourselves as different than try to emulate what has already been practiced.

 

[Cgkdisc]

A little clarity regarding the problem? It's lack of entertainment value. It doesn't matter for most of us because our game as it is is obviously popular. In theory, no changes needed to attract more players. However, the only option to sustain a pro tour is more people wanting to watch online and/or in person, even better if they're willing to pay to watch. I went through quite few options in my series on getting more spectators. One of them is a more compelling game design FOR COMPETITION.

So that's where we are - how to do it if it's even possible. If a solution isn't found, there will be fewer and fewer promoters willing to underwrite the pros. We can look to several other sports for ideas to enhance drama. Specifically looking at ball golf to borrow ideas makes sense, not only because it's also golf, but because they have proven elements that draw more spectator interest. It's ironic that ball golf is now looking for ideas to retain/gain players and is indirectly looking to disc golf (faster play, bigger hole).

If some ideas can be transformed to work for disc golf, there's reasonable chance they might be less pleasant to play for all players. But only the pros might need to do them because it helps them earn income in the long run. We already know many pros will do it to a point when you consider some of the newer, "less pleasant to play" game elements introduced at USDGC and other big events over the years - because the payouts have been very good.