Will we ever see another McBeth or Pierce?

[Mando]

So the real question is - will there ever be another Climo.

Nope. He is the Babe Ruth of disc golf, it's just gonna take folks awhile to figure it out.

 

[DiscFifty]

I feel like Hayley, Evolina, Kyle Klein have a chance to be that dominant but who knows?

You could probably throw in a few more names as well, but....they all can't be dominant (winning all the time) at the same time, hence my op. I don't know, it's hard to imagine the skill set / mental game needed for someone to truly dominate the sport and become a 6x world champion in either MPO or FPO.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Nope. He is the Babe Ruth of disc golf, it's just gonna take folks awhile to figure it out.

In terms of the context I'd say that Climo was less Babe Ruth and more Cy Young. One of the major advantages that Babe Ruth had over the competition during his playing days was enough of a salary to avoid hard labor throughout the off season. Cy Young, on the other hand, had to make a living as a farmer in the off season and went right back to it when he retired from the sport. This is much like the way Climo had to work through his seasons. In terms of the numbers - Cy Young's numbers as a pitcher are just as astounding as Ruth's as a hitter, and so fits as well. 511 career wins. A 25.3 inning hitless streak. Numerous other records that are even less likely than Ruth's to be broken.

McBeth is more like Babe Ruth - the sport's first transcendent star that plays in an era where his efforts are focused entirely on his game thanks to the earnings in the sport sustaining him year-round.

(by the same context: guys like Feldberg or Doss from the middle-era would be like Honus Wagner - clearly the best the sport had to offer, but not quite transcendent clear cut generation defining stars even if they were regarded as the best in the world at one point, but arriving just as the sport was able to sustain them year round)

 

[Neil_Rankin]

Changes in course design would have a great effect. The percentage of people that can win only goes up with the amount of trees on a layout.

 

[DiscFifty]

Changes in course design would have a great effect. The percentage of people that can win only goes up with the amount of trees on a layout.

If the DGPT did not become successful I think this would have alot more validity. But as more elite pros follow the money and primarily play DGPT events, I think we're going to see more and more spectator friendly courses popping up or older ones modified.

 

[disco40]

Of course. It's a relatively small and new sport with a low level of athleticism among its top competitors. The ceiling is very high.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

It's a good point that we're still a relatively young sport and a lot of untapped talent still hasn't made its way into the game. It seems reasonable to me that we'll have future superstars dominating the sport.

However, I wonder if we'll have another equipment breakthrough that will change the game as profoundly as, say, the bevel-edged original Eagle did in 1983? I think we'll have more Climos, Korvers, Pierces and McBeths, but will we have a Disc or some other noun that will revolutionize the way we play proportionally as great as these players?

While sitting here, I can think of three other pretty big innovations that changed the game a lot so far: premium plastic, wide-rimmed drivers, and the newer baskets (which came along after Mach 3's and single-chain Discatchers) that catch more diverse putting styles.

It's pretty hard for me to envision something coming along that will blow our minds again, but it has to, right? Or are we peaking with our innovation now?

 

[scooby snack]

I think plastic compounds will continue to evolve. The premium plastic today, may become the base plastic of tomorrow.

 

[discddwn]

How about a disc so overstable you have to throw it upside down to get any distance? That's innovation.

 

[Mando]

In terms of the context I'd say that Climo was less Babe Ruth and more Cy Young. One of the major advantages that Babe Ruth had over the competition during his playing days was enough of a salary to avoid hard labor throughout the off season. Cy Young, on the other hand, had to make a living as a farmer in the off season and went right back to it when he retired from the sport.

I love any discussion between baseball and disc golf, but the baseball season corresponds exactly with the hard work of farming. So, Cy would have cut out before hard work of spring and returned after the hard work of harvest.
I'll stick with Climo-Ruth as the ones who changed the sport.

 

[Casey 1988]

Will we ever see another McBeth or Pierce....in regards to skill separation / domination at the top?

I think we're at an interesting point in disc golf, where it's possible we could see a plethora of players with the skill set of McBeth & Pierce rising up through the ranks.

We've had a flood of kids starting very early on who are now in their late teens or so, probably having to decide between college or playing in the pro tour. It's going to be even more competitive as the sport attracts a more diverse talent pool as the money grows. We all realize the young guns are learning how to throw 400ft+ before they learn how to make a 30ft putt. I literally saw a young woman throwing 300+ the other day, her father said she just likes throwing and has no intention of competing.

Just seems like the sport has the possibility of a talent convergence of sorts, resulting in more players with a similar skill set. "Down to the wire" may be common place on the pro tour. Great for the sport, but we may be witnessing the end of an era for the sport where a single player has the obvious skill set to dominate.

Looking at the current (and up and coming) players can anyone think of a single player (mpo/fpo) that has a realistic chance at being a 5X+ World Champion? opcorn:

I actually see in future top pro players in Pro Tour/National Tour is making some of the courses that are woods more Plinco by Pro Tour telling them to stay on schedule or they themselves if money to make them Plinco and then for open events like GBO always looking back almost 200 years to find the windiest weekend most common in summer to play on that weekend. Yes things like this will happen to fix the field that is tied like 10 deep every year. Then add in some actual true Mountain courses some that play on a ski resort Like Kiss the Sky one in Colorado that Discmania currently sponsors. I watched the top Discmania players play it in 2019 and yes that ends up on Pro Tour as a new challenge if they are not holding themselves back of always having live coverage for Pro Tour. If not the National Tour is where Kiss the Sky goes.

 

[ChrisWoj]

I love any discussion between baseball and disc golf, but the baseball season corresponds exactly with the hard work of farming. So, Cy would have cut out before hard work of spring and returned after the hard work of harvest.
I'll stick with Climo-Ruth as the ones who changed the sport.

Sorry, not a farmer - but still assumed there was plenty of hard work to be done on a farm in the winter? The point I'm making isn't that he was necessarily working during the heat of his season - but that he could not make a year-round living on baseball.

In general - I think public perception is going to see McBeth as more aligned with Ruth in the "changed the sport" comparison. The million dollar deal, the ability to earn a contract to be able to focus on his game and body year round and sit out tournaments for his health if need be, the fact that he's the transcendent star at the same time that the sport is truly becoming a nationally recognized game... I just don't think Babe Ruth and Climo are a match. I think an earlier, more niche name, with similar absolutely astounding unbreakable records is far more appropriate.

 

[Mando]

Sorry, not a farmer - but still assumed there was plenty of hard work to be done on a farm in the winter? The point I'm making isn't that he was necessarily working during the heat of his season - but that he could not make a year-round living on baseball.

In general - I think public perception is going to see McBeth as more aligned with Ruth in the "changed the sport" comparison. The million dollar deal, the ability to earn a contract to be able to focus on his game and body year round and sit out tournaments for his health if need be, the fact that he's the transcendent star at the same time that the sport is truly becoming a nationally recognized game... I just don't think Babe Ruth and Climo are a match. I think an earlier, more niche name, with similar absolutely astounding unbreakable records is far more appropriate.

I can't agree. Without Climo, the PDGA would have likely fallen by the wayside, as far as having any relevance with the next generation of disc golfers. McBeth=Mike Trout.

 

[ChrisWoj]

I can't agree. Without Climo, the PDGA would have likely fallen by the wayside, as far as having any relevance with the next generation of disc golfers. McBeth=Mike Trout.

Baseball was already big enough by the time Babe Ruth really emerged that the Black Sox had scandalized a nation. Baseball was around 20 years beyond needing one player to save the big leagues by the time Babe Ruth came around. It already had national cachet. For someone to parallel the "saves the league from folding" argument you've gotta go back to the 1890s maybe 00s.

It's more likely that we have not YET had a Babe Ruth than that McBeth parallels Trout.

 

[biscoe]

I can't agree. Without Climo, the PDGA would have likely fallen by the wayside, as far as having any relevance with the next generation of disc golfers.

Nah. The "next generation" of disc golfers at that point had no way of even learning who Climo was... for most people he was just a name on a disc and not even that until after he had already won the majority of his titles.

 

[Mando]

Nah. The "next generation" of disc golfers at that point had no way of even learning who Climo was... for most people he was just a name on a disc and not even that until after he had already won the majority of his titles.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. McBeth, who I consider the next generation,played against Climo as early as 2011 at the Memorial.

 

[biscoe]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. McBeth, who I consider the next generation,played against Climo as early as 2011 at the Memorial.

I am talking about the fact that when Kenny was winning the majority of his titles we were all sitting at home waiting for the next issue of either DGWN or Disc Golf Journal to arrive periodically.

 

[Mando]

Oh. So you are saying McBeth probably didn't even know who Ken Climo was before the 2011 Memorial ? Nah.

 

[autocrosscrx]

Paul McBeth was born the same year that Ken Climo won his first Worlds. Klimo won 11 of his 12 Worlds before McBeth joined the PDGA.

So yeah, I'm sure that Climo won the bulk of his world titles (possibly all of them) before McBeth knew that he existed.

 

[Mando]

To set the record straight, it looks like the first meeting between McBeth and Climo was the 2008 Memorial. At that time Climo was the defending world champ, having won the 2007 Championship by 11 strokes.