Is putting too easy? too hard? Just right?

[BuzzzChief]

Play a PGA-tour caliber course when it's getting ready for a tournament, and tell me that those greens/rough even closely resemble the greens/rough at your local Muni. The reality is that the course setup is so much more difficult for the PGA pros than your average amateur, that it's barely the same game. So fine, make the target smaller for NT events. But at the amateur level, what we need is more exposure and more membership. Not a harder game.

 

[BirdieMachine]

It's nice to see that a nice percentage of others agree putting should be more challenging. Narrower baskets would be where it's at. We're not talking bullseyes here, just a couple inches on each side. It would reward accuracy and putting. I think that I'd like to see it started at the highest level then slowly trickle down over the years and decades as baskets wear out, new courses go in.

 

[Royal Hill]

Thoughts on catching zone size:

I agree with Chuck K that decreasing the vertical opening size seems the most easy adaptation for current set ups for a special day use. Does anyone have an example of anyone who has done this? Any solid Case examples? It's one thing to talk about an idea - its another to use real life examples and survey data of people mocking it up and doing it. A cowel added from the top assembly seems easier to secure than increasing the height of the lower basket frontage. If it was for a yellow band basket I imagine it could overlay or engage the upper band - if it was a DGA style, maybe attach in a similar way that the blades do?

I know there have been some bullseye events. Were they/are they repeated? any clammoring for it to be used more often, or is it tolerated but not loved?

Unique or odd ball designs designed to complicate putting: In the Pac NW there is a case example - the infamous Lk Stevens course has directional, modifiable, etc type manufactured baskets. Been in place for quite a while. I was discussing this with a notable course designer that was in our area and he shared his thoughts that the experiment has been around long enough to prove itself out - the conclusion is that there are some that like the concept and will speak of its greatness, but it was not repeated on any other course in the greater area in a great amount of time including many many courses developed and installed - thus, we should notice that.

 

[Royal Hill]

Next option:

For those in the chain narrowing camp: How about a fixed length chain constrictor?
(x) inches long, intended to thread through the outer chains at the links from the top level.
Try it several times with different length of constriction and at different levels to see what delivers the desired effect (whatever that is). Try, gather survey data - present a case.

That could be easy to try. Fixed length with ends that clasp or screw into each other. Maybe cable or plasticoated silver cable or minichain could work as one wouldn't want it to be a visual distraction too much.

 

[Notverygood]

Not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread or not, but...Interesting discussion btw.

Ball golf has recently been under the gun, from some angles not all, about being too hard. And how they need to make the game easier to entice newer, younger players. Discussion about making ball golf holes larger, etc.

Interesting that we are discussing going the opposite direction and making things harder.

However, I think it's not a fair comparison to compare our sport to ball golf...Do you see top PGA pros damn near parking EVERY hole like McBeth at some courses? No... So should we be focusing on basket size? Fairway size? Length?

could go on and on

 

[Cgkdisc]

Another idea that would not require buying new baskets would be adding three bowed bars mounted vertically 120 degrees apart between the basket and the chain support. It would provide smaller sweet spot windows to the basket and require players to learn how to hyzer and anhyzer putts to hit the window. The bars would bow out away from the basket so the openings were reasonable but provide the smaller window being requested. The curving putts would require more touch such that only direct line putts could be fired in there.

 

[Royal Hill]

Another idea that would not require buying new baskets would be adding three bowed bars mounted vertically 120 degrees apart between the basket and the chain support. It would provide smaller sweet spot windows to the basket and require players to learn how to hyzer and anhyzer putts to hit the window. The bars would bow out away from the basket so the openings were reasonable but provide the smaller window being requested. The curving putts would require more touch such that only direct line putts could be fired in there.

Chuck,
This is in part one of the principles of the Lk Stevens baskets mentioned above, although yours involves somewhat radial symmetry (where the FredC baskets are often one side dominant). There would be some preferential access lines, but not enough to be discouraging or encouraging of where to leave the shot before the putt. (approach or drive)

 

[Cgkdisc]

Yes, familiar with Dr Fred and his baskets. This 3-bar idea came about as a result of lively discussions on the rec.sport.disc discussions in the 90s where having a completely blocked side of the basket was perceived to be unfair versus 360 access but more challenging throws. It's similar to a basket wedged into three evenly spaced tree trunks but with much better access.

 

[peabody]

Shorten all the chains by half. Instead of the 24 links in the DGA mach 3 go to 12 links. That would leave the chains up high exposing the pole.

 

[BrotherDave]

How about a windmill on top of the basket while we're at it. Green energy + harder putts = win-win.

 

[scarpfish]

I've sometimes wondered what effect there would be on putts if we didn't hook the outer chains to the center pole and just let them dangle.

 

[Jay Dub]

I've sometimes wondered what effect there would be on putts if we didn't hook the outer chains to the center pole and just let them dangle.

There's a couple local baskets that get this way often, I think it widens the target.

 

[sjberry2017]

I for one never put much stock in that. Personally I think the mach 3's and discatchers hit that sweet spot perfectly of enough catching ability while still needing to hit a specific point on the target. Compare that to say, the new prodigy basket where they pretty much grab anything that hits any part of the chains, and there is less of an emphasis on hitting a point in the basket and no need for speed control at all. I'm personally not a fan.

This. I haven't putted on the state of the art baskets (Mach X or Prodigy), but plenty of courses I've played are Discatchers or Mach 3's. However, my current "home course" has the old Lightning portable baskets which are one layer of chains and also smaller vertically. I just don't find putting on them to be very fun with the tight window and lack of inner chains. To me, the double chain, standard basket, is just the right degree of difficulty without being maddeningly frustrating

 

[hipster]

I wouldn't mind playing a nice course outfitted with Bullseye targets. They catch surprisingly well.

 

[bogeyfreetilinfinity]

Another idea is to replace the baskets with kan jam and you have to have your caddy redirect the disc through the top, or you can opt for the slot which would negate the throw.


There are endless ideas of how the game could be played. Making the chains skinnier would be fine, but it wouldn't be better or worse, just pointless, it wouldn't change or improve the game.

 

[Nemmers]

 

[Star Shark]

I think putting is too easy for the top guys, but for the general populace, it's just fine. If Joe Average who's never played were to come up on a course with Gateway Bullseyes, he might give up right then and there.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I think putting is too easy for the top guys, but for the general populace, it's just fine. If Joe Average who's never played were to come up on a course with Gateway Bullseyes, he might give up right then and there.

I hardly ever putted out when I started playing. I couldn't make a 5' putt, and most of the time wound up farther away than I started, so I got pretty close and picked up. Moved on to the fun part (driving).

 

[SonicGuy]

what is funny to me is that I am constantly amazed by how BAD professional disc golfers are at putting. They miss a surprising amount of putts for people that make their living off disc golf. In my head they are putting God's but when the tape rolls it is closer to a league night putting. Thus probably has more to do with the C level athletes that make up our elite players right now. Maybe when actually talented athletes start to play the game a basket change will actually be necessary.

 

[dukesilver]

what is funny to me is that I am constantly amazed by how BAD professional disc golfers are at putting. They miss a surprising amount of putts for people that make their living off disc golf. In my head they are putting God's but when the tape rolls it is closer to a league night putting. Thus probably has more to do with the C level athletes that make up our elite players right now. Maybe when actually talented athletes start to play the game a basket change will actually be necessary.

Apply your logic to NBA free throw percentage. Maybe we're still waiting for actually talented NBA players too.