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Ken Climo full on foot fault in the finals...
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grodney
* Ace Member *
Back up 20 seconds. He's pretty careful to note the line of play and make sure where he needs to plant. And then misses it. Not egregious, but yes, a foot fault.
Intentional or not (and I fully believe it wasn't intentional), isn't that always the case?
The next time I see someone miss their lie on a fairway run-up and the miss isn't to the side that most benefits the throw/thrower, it will be the first.
lol..ok...I guess I should have said...that makes it a more visually easier to call than just missing a few inches further straight back.
Hampstead
* Ace Member *
Lends further credence to the theory that he didn't really really care if Stokely foot faulted @ Worlds, Climo just didn't want him in the finals.
CaptainAnhyzer
* Ace Member *
Thinking that the other players on the card are probably watching the throw and don't see his foot miss the marker. He is also focused on the throw and when his follow-thru takes him further to the right, how is he to know that he missed the marker?
Yup. See this kind of foot fault all the time. It really does lend a competitive advantage to the offender. I see a similar fault with "lean out" shots. Where you have to stick a foot into the bush and lean way out with a backhand or forehand. Several practice swings with that plant foot solid, then when the actual throw is done, that foot is dragging well before the release.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Actually, I think it's more complicated than this, and I'm not saying that Climo and Brown weren't Richards, they were.
I think the difference for Ken was effort. Did Stokely try and hit his foot placement? And the answer, if you look at the whole thing, by my measurement, is that he didn't. Ken actually tries, he misses often enough, but he does try. You see that here.
The question of whether or not that should make a distinction is one that I like to think about. I will point out that Paul, well he tries too, and I don't think I've ever seen him miss. There are some others at the top who are the same. To do it, you have to change your primary focus from the throw, to your foot, and bring it back up to the throw at the unload, a hard thing to do. That is, by my measure, Ken sets it up, and he thinks that is good enough, but he doesn't follow through. That logic gives him carte blanch to look at those who make less effort than him as wrong, but he never compares his approach to those who get it right start to finish.
This leaves us with the greater question - if arguably the best player of all time, and the ambassador of the sport, can't get this right, perhaps there is a problem?
I hope the answer to this isn't to try and change the rule...
I guess I'm in a different camp;
I think Kenny missed this one on purpose. You see him mark where he needs to hit to not have a foot fault, and he misses it anyway. Someone should have called him on this.
Thankfully it didn't cost someone else a victory.
I think the answer is to call it. Obviously, it is not always clearly seen by cardmates, but this is not that close and certainly gave him an advantage. I agree changing the rule is not the answer.
Despite what camp you might be in, I think it is impossible to read intent into that throw.
I dunno man. He very clearly goes and marks where he knows he has to throw from...and then misses it pretty soundly.
Just saying, it comes across as very purposeful.
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If there is a problem, it is in the way that the rules are enforced at the pro tour level. I think golf gets it right. The onus should be on the individual competitor to penalize himself, no warnings and no exceptions. If he fails to do so, the stroke should be added along with penalty strokes, even if the mistake is only later discovered by video, with the current enforcement mechanism remaining in place at all other levels and as a backup at the top.
Under no circumstances should it be okay for other players to "overlook" a penalty or call it at their discretion.
I do think it's a bit harder to observe your own foot fault if you're running up and following through than it would be to see that you accidentally hit your ball in bolf.
Agree. I have a habit of stepping back off my lie as I watch the flight of an approach. By the time I look down, after seeing my shot land (in the basket?), I am usually a foot or two off my lie. I would not know for sure if I hit my mark.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post
Actually, I think it's more complicated than this, and I'm not saying that Climo and Brown weren't Richards, they were.
I think the difference for Ken was effort. Did Stokely try and hit his foot placement? And the answer, if you look at the whole thing, by my measurement, is that he didn't. Ken actually tries, he misses often enough, but he does try. You see that here.
The question of whether or not that should make a distinction is one that I like to think about. I will point out that Paul, well he tries too, and I don't think I've ever seen him miss. There are some others at the top who are the same. To do it, you have to change your primary focus from the throw, to your foot, and bring it back up to the throw at the unload, a hard thing to do. That is, by my measure, Ken sets it up, and he thinks that is good enough, but he doesn't follow through. That logic gives him carte blanch to look at those who make less effort than him as wrong, but he never compares his approach to those who get it right start to finish.
This leaves us with the greater question - if arguably the best player of all time, and the ambassador of the sport, can't get this right, perhaps there is a problem?
Why would you try and change a rule that creates so much entertaining discussion?
Actually, I think it's more complicated than this, and I'm not saying that Climo and Brown weren't Richards, they were.
I think the difference for Ken was effort. Did Stokely try and hit his foot placement? And the answer, if you look at the whole thing, by my measurement, is that he didn't. Ken actually tries, he misses often enough, but he does try. You see that here.
The question of whether or not that should make a distinction is one that I like to think about. I will point out that Paul, well he tries too, and I don't think I've ever seen him miss. There are some others at the top who are the same. To do it, you have to change your primary focus from the throw, to your foot, and bring it back up to the throw at the unload, a hard thing to do. That is, by my measure, Ken sets it up, and he thinks that is good enough, but he doesn't follow through. That logic gives him carte blanch to look at those who make less effort than him as wrong, but he never compares his approach to those who get it right start to finish.
This leaves us with the greater question - if arguably the best player of all time, and the ambassador of the sport, can't get this right, perhaps there is a problem?
Why would you try and change a rule that creates so much entertaining discussion?
In this case, I do not think that this was a huge deal. In fact, I think it hurt rather than helped Ken. Rather than having his body hit the right line, he missed by a good half foot, sending the disc farther right than he would have wanted.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
When I play, I don't follow my co-competitors around to see if they've foot faulted. It isn't that I don't look, it's just harder to do than it is to write. I'm focused on my own game and my own shot. And yes, I know the rules require that we look at our competitors throws. I suspect that 90% of all foot faults are missed.
Moral dilemma time. If you're missing a big chunk of the foot faults on your card, and you happen to catch one, is it fair to call it at the expense of that player? If you remove the dilemma part of that, yep, easy call. But, is it equivalent, and does it lead to good or fair outcomes?
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