question: active or passive arm?

[b1-66er]

I started playing back in July. I play a lot. 5+ days a week. Right now I can probably throw putters 180-200, mids 220-250, fairways 250-290, drivers 275-310. I did have one oddball throw where my wraith went 350, it made me happy, haha.

I've just recently gotten way better at actually transferring my weight and bracing. I still have a lot of work to do on my follow through though. I'm pretty sure I have a strong-arming problem. Once I'm turned away from the target and it's time for the disc to move toward the target, I pull on it. I know this is wrong and it is in the process of being changed. But this brings me to my question:

Once the disc gets to my my chest and my elbow is out, am I supposed to actively extend my arm, or do I just let all of the momentum take care of that?

I've heard the backhand throw compared to a trebuchet on several occasions, but a trebuchet uses the momentum to open. I have heard several people to say I am supposed to actively extend my elbow.

Which way is "correct"?


thanks

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Yes good timing on elbow and wrist extension will add some distance once hips and core are engaging the initial pull... for sure but don't strong arm.

 

[b1-66er]

yeah, i know not to strong-arm.

im asking if im supposed to actively open my elbow to get the disc out, or do i let it happen on its own?

 

[sidewinder22]

Once the disc gets to my my chest and my elbow is out, am I supposed to actively extend my arm, or do I just let all of the momentum take care of that?

I've heard the backhand throw compared to a trebuchet on several occasions, but a trebuchet uses the momentum to open. I have heard several people to say I am supposed to actively extend my elbow.

Which way is "correct"?


thanks

Think about if you put springs on the beam and sling of a trebuchet and how they would get loaded/lag and then explode or snap back from either being compressed or stretched, but everything is still started by the momentum of the weight dropping. Your muscles are like springs and assist the bounce of momentum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGGYsSUGKXk#t=4m

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Both. Dont force anything was my point but active elbow and wrist are key to pushing past 400' with solid brace.

 

[b1-66er]

Think about if you put springs on the beam and sling of a trebuchet and how they would get loaded/lag and then explode or snap back from either being compressed or stretched, but everything is still started by the momentum of the weight dropping. Your muscles are like springs and assist the bounce of momentum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGGYsSUGKXk#t=4m

So I'm supposed to pull and actively open my arm? Or is it a mix of the two?

 

[sidewinder22]

So I'm supposed to pull and actively open my arm? Or is it a mix of the two?

When you say pull, I think of the elbow bending instead of extending, and bringing the disc into the body. There is only a slight pull in the swing or guiding the disc into the power zone to load up.

When the elbow extends out of the power zone, it's pushing away from the body like throwing a jab or extending a bench press. You can't pull something away from your body very well. If you pass a basketball to someone you spring/push it away from you somewhat like a golf disc.

 

[slowplastic]

You have to wait until the angles/momentum are setting you up to gas it with the arm and shoulder. It's easiest to describe with respect to other motions. For example if you're going to chop wood with an axe, you don't raise the axe above your head and right when it gets to the top start trying to yank the handle down as hard as possible. You let gravity start the motion and as the axe head is falling you kind of just "feel" when it's appropriate to pull on the handle a bit to get more angle and power.

Same thing with a baseball bat, you use your body weight/hips to start moving the bat forward. Once you're braced up the bat will start getting ahead of you, and when you begin to feel the leverage you start to unload the head of the bat. If you do it too early you feel like the bat is heavy and going on all sorts of planes, and if your arcs aren't smooth then it pulls you in weird ways in the follow through.

The problem is although throwing a disc is similar goals to these motions, the disc is so light so you you don't feel its weight as easily unless you're doing things somewhat correctly, and if you do it wrong it just rips out of your hand so you don't get any feedback other than hitting the wrong trees.

 

[b1-66er]

When you say pull, I think of the elbow bending instead of extending, and bringing the disc into the body. There is only a slight pull in the swing or guiding the disc into the power zone to load up.

When the elbow extends out of the power zone, it's pushing away from the body like throwing a jab or extending a bench press. You can't pull something away from your body very well. If you pass a basketball to someone you spring/push it away from you somewhat like a golf disc.

I assume that when you mention the elbow leaving the power zone, you're reverting to it being out in front toward the target, right?

So once there, do you actively extend your arm, or just let it whip around?

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Activate the wrist more at that point IMO which pulls the arm and disc into the "power pocket" for best leverage.

 

[sidewinder22]

I assume that when you mention the elbow leaving the power zone, you're reverting to it being out in front toward the target, right?

So once there, do you actively extend your arm, or just let it whip around?

Elbow extending/arm straightening. Disc coming out of power zone.

I'd say it's both, it's assisting momentum. It's really hard to think about this from a static position and isolated movement. The swing is dynamic and involves the entire body. The sum is greater than the parts.

 

[b1-66er]

Elbow extending/arm straightening. Disc coming out of power zone.

I'd say it's both, it's assisting momentum. It's really hard to think about this from a static position and isolated movement. The swing is dynamic and involves the entire body. The sum is greater than the parts.

Ok. I'll work on that. Up until now, all I've done is pull and open arm

 

[46YearOldSlinger]

When you say pull, I think of the elbow bending instead of extending, and bringing the disc into the body. There is only a slight pull in the swing or guiding the disc into the power zone to load up.

When the elbow extends out of the power zone, it's pushing away from the body like throwing a jab or extending a bench press. You can't pull something away from your body very well. If you pass a basketball to someone you spring/push it away from you somewhat like a golf disc.

Interesting, so you are actively using your triceps to extend the elbow? I've been just letting the lower arm "fling out" but that may be part of my problem.

Good discussion here.

 

[sidewinder22]

Interesting, so you are actively using your triceps to extend the elbow? I've been just letting the lower arm "fling out" but that may be part of my problem.

Good discussion here.

Yes, assisting momentum. It's not a lot a muscle. It's just like using or tossing a hammer sideways.

 

[ClydesdaleDan]

Start off by allowing your arm to "fling" or whip open from momentum like you said and focus on the way it feels as the levers of your arm opening create that acceleration with almost no input from the arm muscles. Then begin to titrate in conscious extension of the arm, but only in a way that contributes to the whip-like sensation that you felt before. Any muscular exertion that is not contributing to the whip feeling is causing stiffness and therefore hindering it.

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[dysmike]

Wow, solid usage of the word 'titrate' outside of chem. That's awesome right there.

 

[ClydesdaleDan]

Wow, solid usage of the word 'titrate' outside of chem. That's awesome right there.

Still trying to get my moneys worth out of all the schooling I never use in real life. [emoji18]

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[billyjacko]

This thread is why I wish more people would use the term Swing instead of pull. I don't think you're pulling anything except for what SW said about guiding the disc into the pocket. IMO, swinging the throwing shoulder and upper arm with the lower body is more important than any extra snap/spin from actively hammering the disc outward. I think that very late acceleration is an advanced move you can work on, but the lower body mechanics will give you more consistent distance and accuracy. I'm still learning to throw more with the lower body, but I know when I was throwing with all snap, I started having elbow pain. Best advice on trying to get more distance is film yourself and post a form thread.