Breaking Bad Timing Habit

[Melonhusk]

Still work to do for sure on the hershyzer stuff, but I'm starting to realize part of the issue is my shift isn't working - so back to basics again. I read through a bunch of others' threads, looking for stuff I missed or forgot along the way, found some good stuff and just focused on swinging back, keeping the pressure firm on the inside of my left foot, and letting myself get pulled back as I shift forward.





I'm definitely using my left leg differently than I was before, and I think it's helping a lot already. Feels like I'm finally leveraging without extending.

Still unsure if I'm getting it quite right, at times my back hip was higher than my right hip even after planting. I'm also not sure if my back foot is bug squishy or if it looks ok - trying to follow the advice of this guy




One place I'm sure I have big problems is my swing itself. I was trying to think at various times about just standing up straight on my front leg and letting the disc do whatever came naturally, or guiding it out sideways, or leveraging it out away from me trying to get an out-in-out motion, thinking about "redirecting it" with my center, etc. Seems like no matter what I try my shoulders are always in such a hurry to spin open towards the target.

 

[sidewinder22]

Looking better!
Try working on this.

Your foot/feet need to evert/roll/bank inward shifting back and forth, so the knee/s move/swivel ahead underneath to catch the hips/shoulders/spine/head.

 

[Melonhusk]

Maybe some more progress? I realized the way my right hip was clearing was really not like a golf swing at all, and not even like the way I throw in ultimate - so I worked to fix that, I think it did have an effect on my posture throughout the swing. I did have some knee trouble, felt like my plant foot was screwed into the ground and I was just torquing against my knee. I was throwing in thick grass with grippy shoes but I think it was probably more mechanics related, so I'm sure there's still stuff to be ironed out.

Aside from adjustments to my frontside hip I definitely found the more and longer I felt the leverage through the inside of my back foot the better the throw looked on camera, and the easier it was to make a complete backswing.

standstills





x steps




my knee felt better about this one, tried to think about standing straight up rather than thrusting my hip forward and up, like I had been doing





Thanks!

 

[sidewinder22]

Looking better!

On standstill, you have no stagger. Start with your knees inline and then bend rear knee so your rear foot steps back east. Play around with it bounce back and forth with the rear foot kickstand.

 

[Melonhusk]

Thanks!

Should I try throwing with my back leg as a "kickstand", knee bent and only the tip of my toes touching the ground? Or should my back foot have full contact, just staggered eastwards? Or is the idea not to throw from this position.



I have one more video from before, made me notice the probable reason my knee is getting upset.



It looks like when I plant my kneecap is facing away from the target, so it has to clear all the way around. I timed both screenshots for when our heels settled all the way down.

Noticing when Gavin gets his weight on his front foot his front leg is already slightly externally rotated so it clears much smoother. Is that just a function of more pressure through my back instep, to get my hips moving sooner? It feels like the only way I can achieve something like this right now is a longer stride.

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks like you are reaching back too late and not turning your shoulders enough and the arms slacks/collapses in transition.

A longer stride in door frame drill should help pull everything more taut.

Watch my pre shot routine, rear foot goes up/down all the way tippy toes to heel. Knees are slightly staggered, kind of depends if you push your front knee back behind the ankle, then it's more inline with rear knee.

 

[Melonhusk]

Longer stride helped! I can definitely see my knee getting more open, which I figured it would, for some reason I just thought I was already in danger of striding too far.

Here's my kickstand attempt, is this looking ok?




And here's another side/back view of a full throw



Better? I see what you meant about how the other one was lacking the "tautness", though I think this one still is too overall.

I keep going back to that video of Gavin Rathbun here. Now what's striking me is seeing how he's not planting closed - he's coiling up while leveraging forward, staying closed off until the last possible second, and then...I don't know exactly, but I can see how it has to be sudden, and how everything unwinds once his plant foot comes down, but the unwinding starts before foot strike. I don't know if he's consciously deciding to "release" and that's when he finally plants, or if it's all just a consequence of leveraging properly through the back foot - if his back foot rolls over and that's it.

 

[sidewinder22]

1. The pic is when our rear heel hits ground. You are already turning back, before you shift/walk back. I'm shifting back more southeast and pushing my front knee back toward rear knee. And then I turn back more inside/deeper.
Shift back, then turn/swing back.

2. Note how Gavin plants his toes and his heel continues moving targetward.

I am doing both Reverse and Forward Elephant Walk here:

 

[Melonhusk]

Standstill felt much better shifting before turning, felt like there was a lot more space for the disc. Think this looks better?




I was trying to work through a vague idea I have that I still don't really have the right motion pattern for my lower body. It seems like my footwork has improved but I'm still fundamentally rotating over top of my plant leg, and I'm wondering if that's actually the reason my knee gets bothered. When I see pros shift into their plant to me it looks more like it comes "from underneath", a swooping motion like kick the can. I tried to work on that with an improvised one-step kind of thing, trying to keep my knee ahead of my center rather than getting on top of my knee. I don't know, is this on the right track at all? I know what my upper body is doing is terrible - like I'm throwing my back arm instead of my front and not nearly turned back enough - was just trying to get the right feel in my legs.





Thanks!

 

[Melonhusk]

SW - you might like Albert Tamm's pre shot routine (3:59)

 

[sidewinder22]

Watch Eagle's pre shot routine, and how he gets his shoulders forward over the front leg.

 

[Melonhusk]

Aha! This has gotta be the best my arm and upper body posture has looked in a swing - now I've just gotta stop tipping over top and try to go wayyyyy slower and easier.

 

[Melonhusk]

Back to trying to work on lower body, felt like I was getting some "positions" better in my last set of videos but only at the cost of a lot of tension everywhere and without really feeling any sort of weight shift - just deliberately moving my arm. Been trying to get that swooping/gliding "from underneath" feeling in my legs, not sure if there's any real progress here but I've at least got something that looks a little better than before, I think. Doesn't look quite right at the end, but I think it might just be my wacky too-flat swing plane messing it up? Trying not to overthink my upper half right now but it's in bad shape.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Your throw is pretty good. But your front foot has no plantar flexion, so you land flat footed. Your rear arm is also hanging back, instead of coming forward and helping the shift.

It also looks like, looking from behind the tee, that your balance tips slightly leftwards in the finish. You should be fully balanced on top of the front leg in the finish.

 

[Brychanus]

Also looks like you're still leaning away in the x-step and decelerating rather than accelerating/letting your body mass drift forward ahead of it.

 

[Melonhusk]

Thanks! I got out again today, I think most of those points are at least a little improved? Definitely feeling like my legs are in better shape than a couple sessions ago, but far from perfect. Felt today like I was 100% creating some potential energy, I could feel it even in the bad shots - I'm just not really harnessing it.


This might be the best-looking attempt overall, posture and balance wise?



Kept trying to turn further and further back as that seemed like a problem, I think this one had less slack at the top of the backswing? The rest of the swing doesn't look so good to me.



This is what a lot of the throws looked like - not turned back enough, little bit of tip over the front leg, pulled right.

 

[Brychanus]

Thanks! I got out again today, I think most of those points are at least a little improved? Definitely feeling like my legs are in better shape than a couple sessions ago, but far from perfect. Felt today like I was 100% creating some potential energy, I could feel it even in the bad shots - I'm just not really harnessing it.


This might be the best-looking attempt overall, posture and balance wise?



Kept trying to turn further and further back as that seemed like a problem, I think this one had less slack at the top of the backswing? The rest of the swing doesn't look so good to me.



This is what a lot of the throws looked like - not turned back enough, little bit of tip over the front leg, pulled right.

Still leaning away. You're having trouble finding and committing the momentum overall I think.

Your pump looks more like a little wrist flick rather than momentous. I think you either need to take the pump much more momentous all the way out like Feldberg letting it help launch your CoG toward the target, and/or really focus on leaving the disc behind you shifting your body forward like the door from drills.

Either way in your backswing, it looks like your body can't really find the sweet spot for the side bend posture like door frame drill or golfer side bend drills. In addition to leaning away, that's why you're never looking or feeling very momentous or loaded up before you shift to plant. I think it's impossible to get ideal backswing load and full uncoiling effect without it.

 

[Melonhusk]

Felt like my weight shift was just a bit better today, felt smoother and like I was going over the top less and throwing off my front leg a bit more. I tried more side bend, pretty sure I don't have the sweet spot yet, at least not consistently, but the throws where I remembered to do that where better on the whole I think.






Still having problems for sure with what to do during the second part of the swing. S curve posture and not enough internal shoulder rotation going on?

Copying Eagle's pre shot routine the other day helped me get the disc wing looking more like his does through release, but I also couldn't figure out how to incorporate it in a swing in a fluid way that didn't feel like manipulating my shoulder consciously. Maybe I just need more time with it!

 

[Brychanus]

Yeah, see what you can do to get the spine a little more neutral.

I think I still might recommend a little more feel for a heave forward with your pump even if you keep that cradle style.

It's not about how big the pump is as much as feeling like it's helping your body mass "launch" forward. As your arm mass swings back and/or your body moves past the disc, you should feel more pulled taut with side bend in the backswing.

If you are not leaning away when you do it, I think that will help coil you back and load you more, make it less "reachy" with the plant foot, and make your shift more abrupt without opening up quite as early. Braced tilt might improve a bit too.

Watch how even though Paul's pump is not a full forward pendulum, he's got his arm mass helping propel/swing him forward:

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Might be a grip issue rather than shoulder IR.

2. Your rear knee is moving to the east too late while going into the plant. Watch how Nate's rear knee moves back east much earlier and then moves west going into the plant.