2015 Pro Worlds

[gcr_russell]

First off, awesome post, SirHucksAlot.



Agree.TD should have started play on time and not made other players make the decision. Thank goodness Hokom was not seriously injured and I hope she wins, but we can't hold court every time someone is late. Though I would not have taken Cat's stance, it's unfair for her to be put in that position.

Yep. It's a totally crappy position for Sarah and I feel real bad for her, but it's also crummy to put other people in that position as well instead of either directly deferring to traditional rules or having the change mandated by the TD. Technically it's not an option the players are granted according to the rule book and they shouldn't be put in the pressure situation of making that judgment call.

(Not trying to say they are equally bad. Obviously Sarah's situation is far worse than the situation of the players being made to make the judgment call)

 

[JC17393]

This is why the td should make the call instead of dumping it on the other players.

Bingo. Not to make this about Cat, but when she arrived late at last year's Worlds, she was actually there when they started. She just hadn't gotten to her hole by the time the start horn was sounded. The group proceeded by the book, counted her 30 seconds, and then started without her. She arrived while they were still playing the hole. The group let her tee off and play the hole quickly to catch up to them, but the TD ruled she was late and she had to take the par+4. To her credit, she took the penalty with grace, played hard, and won the tournament anyway. So I can understand her stance of no exceptions regardless of circumstance, if indeed that was the case.

What if it had been a woman who was on the 6th card who'd gotten into the accident instead? Would they have delayed the start by 20 minutes to allow her extra time to arrive and minimize her late penalty? Or was this special treatment only because the late player was the leader or on the lead card (i.e. in contention).

The rules are there for a reason, and there are no variants in the late arrival rule to account for reasons/excuses. It sucks for Sarah to have had that happen to her, and I'm whole heartedly rooting for her to win in spite of the penalties (and any injuries), but the TDs screwed this one up both in delaying the round and seeking input from the players. Now there's forever going to be an asterisk (unofficially) on the results. Win or lose, that's really unfair to Sarah too because I'm sure she didn't ask for any special treatment. If she'd arrived 3 holes or 4 holes late instead of just 2, I imagine she'd have gone about things exactly the same way, and without complaint.

 

[paulw]

Just as an aside and a pet peeve, you can arrive late and get penalized, get the round delayed for you, etc., but if by chance some calamity happens and you're forced to leave early, you will most likely be dnf'd . . . just odd.

 

[BionicRib]

If rules are rules then why did they start late? Again....does anybody have any facts?

 

[Streets]

Is there any kind of precedent for this situation?

 

[BionicRib]

If you leave early you get par plus 4 for every hole, then after the round the TD either 999s you or 888s you. Essentially your leaving could penalize you if the TD decides you left for certain reasons.

This was in response to Paul w

 

[paulw]

Bionicrib -- if you come late you get penalized, if you leave early you get dnf'd . . . . you've typed the exact same thing that I have, I'm very familiar with the rules/past-practice and think that it's silly if you come late you get to play, if you leave early you get dq'd . . . . ?

It should be if you come late you're out and if you leave early you're out. Choice B should be if you come late you're penalized and if you leave early you're penalized. Our culture (disc golf, happy smiling natives) prevents us from understanding the logic in this. yes? n'est cas pas?

 

[livedoen4]

Sarah showing a warrior's spirit...this makes a great story. The rules are fair because they don't discriminate. It would not be fair to everyone (including Sarah) if she was treated differently. Certainly totallying your car, while at the PDGA World Championships, leading, is a unique situation but that's what makes it a great story.

 

[JC17393]

If you leave early you get par plus 4 for every hole, then after the round the TD either 999s you or 888s you. Essentially your leaving could penalize you if the TD decides you left for certain reasons.

This was in response to Paul w

Par + 4 applies to holes missed at the start of a round. Leaving the round before it is finished constitutes withdrawal from the round/tournament. There is no par+4 in that situation.

 

[paulw]

Rating Par Rd1 Rd2 Rd3 Rd4 Rd5 Semis Finals Total
1 W SRU Elfriede Eberly 43474 870 +33 80 832 64 891 64 897 73 915 73 918 12:45 pm 354
2 W SRU Suzette Simons 11957 858 +34 77 856 68 853 66 878 71 930 73 918 12:45 pm 355
3 W SRU Sandra Frazer 24354 855 +35 72 896 65 882 71 831 72 922 76 896 12:45 pm 356
4 W SRU Lisa Warner 9519 848 +36 78 848 68 853 67 869 69 945 75 903 12:45 pm 357

On another note and not a pet peeve -- I haven't done any research into past years but how cool is this finish? Of the 8 GM women that entered, after 5 rounds, the top 4 are separated by three throws!! That's just fun. I'm rooting for Lisa Warner, GO LISA!!

 

[paulw]

Par + 4 applies to holes missed at the start of a round. Leaving the round before it is finished constitutes withdrawal from the round/tournament. There is no par+4 in that situation.

Come late, "it's OK", leave early - "YOU'RE OUT"!!

splain why that's right. (you won't)

 

[JC17393]

Come late, "it's OK", leave early - "YOU'RE OUT"!!

splain why that's right. (you won't)

I didn't write the rules, I only follow them.

(you have a point, but here's not the place to hammer it)

 

[DirtyMeathook]

If rules are rules then why did they start late? Again....does anybody have any facts?

The same person both failed to defer to the rules as well as delayed the start, the TD. In case you missed it, we are questioning his decisions.

 

[Dana]

I heard it was Rebecca Hall Duffy who made the call to delay. Not all cards got the word to delay. Sounds messy. PDGA Marshal, Shawn Sinclair, was not happy about the call. The ladies on the top 2 cards played as slow as possible after the late start. DG Guy has hole by hole coverage, which I'm looking forward to watching.

Also, was told Sarah was hit from behind and it sent her into an oncoming truck. Very lucky to be alive. It also sounds (per Don Smith's faebook post) that she is at the ER right now (as of 8pm central).

 

[paulw]

I didn't write the rules, I only follow them.

(you have a point, but here's not the place to hammer it)

(Really? What place is, no where else seems to listen . . . . )

LISA WARNER WILL WIN!!

Yay!!

 

[BionicRib]

Par + 4 applies to holes missed at the start of a round. Leaving the round before it is finished constitutes withdrawal from the round/tournament. There is no par+4 in that situation.

I get it but it also states you get par plus 4 for any hole you don't play assuming you started the round (omitted holes )....leaving before the round is finished constitutes withdrawal, but it doesn't direct players what to do with that players scores for the rest of the round....I get it, imo its a petty grey area in the rule book.

 

[paulw]

On an aside AGAIN, Carlos Rigby is the only senior legend of the three entered, that's scheduled to play tomorrow in the finals . . . wtf? If you're the only competitor in the finals can't we assume you've won and hand you the trophy/cash/etc.? What am I missing? Yay!!

 

[New013]

I guess PB got a 460ft eagle over water and his caddy got it on film. I'll link it when it's up.

been there done that

 

[paulw]

I get it but it also states you get par plus 4 for any hole you don't play assuming you started the round (omitted holes )....leaving before the round is finished constitutes withdrawal, but it doesn't direct players what to do with that players scores for the rest of the round....I get it, imo its a petty grey area in the rule book.

Um, it's not grey, you're opinion needs some updating, but review my reprimand above this isn't the place to hammer it -- you can only hammer the TD for messing up the Sarah thing. :thmbup:

 

[New013]

^^Reminds me of LeBron not getting the MVP this year. People get tired of such a dominant force that they want a new player to emerge.

.. Lebron didnt earn MVP this year, that's why he didnt win it.