2016 Memorial Championship presented by Discraft

[Steve West]

He doesn't need backup on the courtesy violation, because the first one is a warning not a stroke and needs no second

I don't think he was trying to call a courtesy violation for excessive time. I think he was trying to call Paul under

803.03 Misplay
…
G. Types of misplay:
…
5. Missed Hole Due To Late Arrival. The player has failed to play a hole due to late arrival. The player receives a score of par plus four for the hole. See Section 1.5 B of the Competition Manual.

1.5
B
(2) Staggered Starts (rounds where groups start one after another on a certain hole): … If a player is not present to throw when it is his or her turn, the scorekeeper shall allow 30 seconds. If the player has not thrown by then, a score of par plus four is to be entered for that hole.

That's the only way it makes sense that it would be his turn to throw.

If so, he would have needed confirmation from another player.

It would seem to be correct that he didn't get the confirmation, since the rule clearly applies only to the start of the round.

 

[grodney]

The point is that needing to use the bathroom would qualify as a "reasonable amount of time" to arrive at your next lie

Oh, agree. I have no problem waiting for a player to use the restroom. The "distraction" argument just gets mis-used a lot. Although I also agree that the 30-second rule needs cleaned up, strengthened, and enforced.

 

[sidewinder22]

"
A. A maximum of 30 seconds is allowed to
each player to make a throw after

(1) The previous player has thrown; and,

(2) The player has had a reasonable amount of
time to arrive at the disc; and,

(3) The playing area is clear and free of
distractions.
"

I don't think his bladder was in the playing area. In fact, "outside distractions" mean nothing. If it's not in the playing area, it's not holding you up.

"Playing area" is not defined. Area IMO would include anything you can sense 360 degrees around you that would be distracting.

 

[sidewinder22]

Um . . . where/how exactly does Paul keep his bladder outside the playing area?

You want to see him throw a disc inside his bladder.

 

[sidewinder22]

He doesn't need backup on the courtesy violation, because the first one is a warning not a stroke and needs no second

Excessive time is not a courtesy violation, it has its own rule to the thrower. Courtesy violations are for non-throwers or thrower. I would think "A" would supersede a time violation shot clock. How many people and animals got hit?

Although this probably opens another can or worms. Shouldn't McCray and Philo have been called for violations, hitting a person?

A. Players should not throw until they are certain that the thrown disc will not distract another player or potentially injure anyone present.

C. Players should take care not to produce any auditory or visual distractions while other players are throwing. Distracting actions include: shouting, cursing, freestyling, striking course equipment, throwing out of turn, throwing or kicking golf bags, throwing minis, and advancing on the fairway beyond the away player. Shouting at an appropriate time to warn someone in danger of being struck by a disc is not a courtesy violation.

 

[threevok]

I wonder what JohnE's sponsors think of his behavior... Maybe it will help him get a signature disc. What should it be called?

Biscuits 'N' Mustard Mhm

 

[teemkey]

Was a potty break the reason he was penalized in 2006?

 

[YawningDrone]

man you guys are tough on Johne. Im not defending his behavior but as far as tantrums go we've seen much worse.

 

[JC17393]

Was a potty break the reason he was penalized in 2006?

Unless he took the potty break en route to his first hole of the round, no. In 2006, he was late to arrive at his starting hole and was assessed the correct par+4 for doing so. Based on his actions yesterday, I would guess he arrived before his group finished the hole or even finished teeing off, but wasn't allowed to play the hole since his turn on the tee had already timed out before he got there.

Seems he was conflating the late arrival rule/penalty with taking excessive time during the round. It's the only possible explanation for why he would think Paul was to be skipped in the teeing order, which is obviously what you do when a player is nowhere to be found at the start of the round, but not what you would do if you're calling excessive time for the first time in the round.

 

[SD86]

Memorial 2016, Finals, Hole 16, McBeth goes to the restroom and takes 48 seconds to return. McCray starts counting up to 30 seconds and then says "DOES ANYONE NOT KNOW THE RULES, IT'S MY TURN, RIGHT?" Then references a time back in 06' when he was late to World's and didn't get a warning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEupanuYsM8
Time: 2:01:00 mark, turn up the volume.

It's interesting how sensitive people get when they are under pressure. You wouldn't think someone would care that McBeth went to the restroom when they, themselves, took well over 30 seconds to throw their drives multiple times, including other card mates who took well over a minute to execute shots throughout the weekend.

What I thought was interesting, and a bit funny, was McCray was pushing hard to get McBeth penalized... and as soon as the TD or someone said that it would just be a warning for the first offense, McCray's whole demeanor changed, as if the air was let out of his sails. He just became snippy and whiney about it. The controversy was over; just the huiliation was left...

 

[@iDiscGolf]

You know what's funny/sad. Is immediately prior to the johne calling excessive time on Paul is all the forum was talking about in this memorial thread literally was people taking too long to throw and why no one calls penalties. Lol smh

 

[JC17393]

You know what's funny/sad. Is immediately prior to the johne calling excessive time on Paul is all the forum was talking about in this memorial thread literally was people taking too long to throw and why no one calls penalties. Lol smh

And if JohnE had called Paul CORRECTLY for excessive time, instead of trying to apply the wrong rule/penalty, he probably would have been spared some if not most of the criticism here. Hell, had he stuck with his desire to call time on Paul and given him a warning once he was informed that that was the proper procedure, he'd have been okay. But instead he grumbled and whined and referenced an incident from 10 years ago for which he was properly penalized, and didn't follow through on making the call at all.

I'm all for these guys calling violations, including time violations, if they do it correctly and by the book. All I'd ask is if they're going to do it at all, do it for every violation, not just when you think you can pick on the leader or perhaps gain an advantage for yourself. It really stands out when you try to call a guy out on time in a questionable instance, and get the rule wrong anyway, but completely ignore the multiple opportunities when a clear violation occurs.

 

[@iDiscGolf]

Yeah. I agree with you. It was t necessary, tried to apply incorrectly and they should be calling people like philo and Nikko instead takin the 60+ seconds instead, of just ghost throws and nothingness swings.

Just was a funny observation on this thread drifting from one thing to criticizing what was being criticized? Haha. Standards are low

 

[tbird888]

#readyforprimetime :|

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

#readyforprimetime :|

Absolutely!! Drama increases the watchability. Look at wwe, it's not the lame wrestling moves and bashing each other with folding chairs that keeps people coming back, it's the drama (as fake as it is) between the players.

 

[teemkey]

Unless he took the potty break en route to his first hole of the round, no. In 2006, he was late to arrive at his starting hole and was assessed the correct par+4 for doing so. Based on his actions yesterday, I would guess he arrived before his group finished the hole or even finished teeing off, but wasn't allowed to play the hole since his turn on the tee had already timed out before he got there.

Seems he was conflating the late arrival rule/penalty with taking excessive time during the round. It's the only possible explanation for why he would think Paul was to be skipped in the teeing order, which is obviously what you do when a player is nowhere to be found at the start of the round, but not what you would do if you're calling excessive time for the first time in the round.

But wouldn't skipping Paul in the teeing order have been the sensible solution?

Few people would fail to permit another player a few minutes to relieve a bladder about to burst. And changing the tee order could be considered a "flow of play" strategy.

 

[HarkeyPuck]

You'd think a "hey guys, I have to take a piss. Be right back." Would have saved a lot of drama here.

 

[DiscgolfStu]

[\Quote]Since he had nobody on the card to back him up on his courtesy violation call, he goes off on his old man mumble rant.[/QUOTE]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with an old man mumble rant in pro sports, IMO. Guy's a competitor. Now excuse me while I go comment on Nikko's outfit...

 

[Allurex]

Although this probably opens another can or worms. Shouldn't McCray and Philo have been called for violations, hitting a person?

It's essentially impossible at Fountain Hills. So many spectators and random park goers who have no clue what's going on. It happens.

 

[Pbmercil]

But wouldn't skipping Paul in the teeing order have been the sensible solution?

Few people would fail to permit another player a few minutes to relieve a bladder about to burst. And changing the tee order could be considered a "flow of play" strategy.

Anyone want to chime in on the rules on this one? Facilitating pace of play specifically refers to letting the non away player throw. Can that be applied to tee shots as well? Honest question