Acceleration: Late or Smooth?

[sidewinder22]

I thought I remembered this from DGR.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/technique/bhproblemsdistance.shtml
The timing of your footwork and pull-through is off.
Possible Fix:
Make sure your x-step is smooth and your pull-through is happening at the right time. A fluid 1-2-plant-whip is what you should be feeling. If you are late with the whip it will sap your power and leave you out to the left.


Your balance and center of gravity are off.
Possible Fix:
Make sure you have your balance and a defined center of gravity during your motion and plant. The weight should be on the balls of your feet at all times, no heels. Players' body shapes differ greatly, so whether you choose your center of gravity to be over your plant foot or down the center of your body, it's up to you, just make sure you stay balanced and your weight is where it should be.


Your steps may be too short or too long.
Possible Fix:
Too short of steps in your x-step and you won't have enough power. Too long of steps in your x-step and you will be awkward and off balance. Practice will help you find the correct step length that gives the maximum power from your hip-swing and give your upper body the most acceleration.


You aren't keeping the disc close enough to your body.
Possible Fix:
If the disc isn't tight to your chest you aren't going to get the benefits of the elbow extension or wrist bounce that is the source of much of a throw's power. A good drill for this is standing facing a wall with your disc. You should be close enough to the wall that there is maybe 1 inch of clearance between the disc and the wall and another inch between your chest and the disc. Practice the feel of pulling the disc through on that line. Keep in mind on a real throw your shoulders will be doing the pulling, but this will at least give the feel of a disc tight to your body.


You aren't leading with your hips
Possible Fix: A powerful throw in disc golf is generated from the legs up. The direction of your feet lead everything and start the hip rotation, which turns the torso, which turns the shoulders, which pull the arm and sling the disc. The legs are the intial source of your throwing power as your thighs and hips put your body in motion and are one of your strongest muscle groups especially when you compare them to your upper arms. Getting your hips to explode through and lead your upper body is critical for generating maximum upper body rotation and arm speed. Without the hips you are basically trying to strong arm throws so they should come through quickly and early. A common symptom of strong arming throws (even if you have great distance) is the finish of your throw. Most throwers that do not properly use their legs to their advantage will find themselves hopping off of their pivot foot several feet after their release. This is caused by their upper body moving through faster and their throwing arm stopping which then forces the hips to rotate through and throwing them off of their pivot foot. Getting the hips to lead the throw may or may not increase your distance but it will definitely increase your distance potential and should get you at least the same amount of D with less effort.

 

[garublador]

These two lines seem to contradict each other. If this method really is the most effective teaching method, then why is it the hardest for most people to grasp?

The hit is the most difficult thing to learn and most don't learn it. The hammer pound drills are the most effective way of teaching it, even though most won't fully "get it." He even acknowledges this in his description of the drills. It used to be that some really small percent, like on the order of 1% or less, actually "got" the hit. The point of the hammer pound drills is to bring that up to like 5%. That's a 5x increase which is huge for a teaching technique.

Now, it's my inkling that this hammer pound or Blake technique is really for those throwers who have a somewhat grasp of a basic throw. Would u recommend this technique to a complete noob who has no grasp of the fundamentals of a basic throw?

Absolutely I'd recommend them. What they teach is what the feel of the hit is like. If you don't know how it's supposed to feel how are you ever supposed to learn how to do it? Why build your entire throw around the wrong feeling just to have to start over to build it around the correct feeling?

It's not like I don't see any merit in the technique, I just really don't get how it's a power generator. I get the whole tendon bounce thing for the most part. You want to keep your wrist at the optimal tensions, so that when u come through, u transfer the energy that comes before it. But don't u need something to bounce against? If u don't have a solid foundation, it seems u'll never be able to generate power.

Exactly. The hit is the most fundamental part of the throw. You should build your whole throw around maximizing the hit.

As to power generators, it makes much more sense to me that u want to use your core and big muscles to achieve this.

Those big muscles are much more important than arm muscles, but much less important than correct timing, aka "the hit."

I'm not sure everyone takes the time to really understand what the hammer pound drills are trying to teach. It's a whole different method of how to learn how to throw. The hammer pound drills teach you what the feel of the hit is like. You learn what it feels like to actively manipulate the weight of the disc. Then you have to transfer that feel to your throw. The drills do not teach you how to throw. You'll have to put in the work to get that feeling transferred to your throw. Once you can get that feeling when throwing from a stand still then you can start adding reach back and steps to make that feeling stronger. You'll be able to easily tell if what you're doing is helping or not because the feeling will be stronger and the disc will go farther. You will end up doing all of the stuff that sidewinder22 is talking about, but you'll do it in a way that's easiest for you rather than trying to do what's easiest for Dave F. or Ken C. Rather than trying to emulate a dozen or so different little movements you'll just build your throw in the way that's most natural and easy for you.

 

[garublador]

IIRC Blake typically doesn't like to teach newbs, probably because their fundamentals aren't on par.

My understanding is that he's rather spend his time teaching people who have already tried the hammer pound drills and have spent time building their throws themselves. Because disc golf is a hobby for most rather than an essential life skill, my guess is that he's rather teach people who are willing to put the work in themselves than people who want it spoon fed to them. His advice has always been tailored towards those willing to put in the work and figure stuff out on their own. That's why it's generally so cryptic. In other words, he'd rather guide people to help them make their own discoveries than just tell someone what to do.

 

[sidewinder22]

The hit is the most difficult thing to learn and most don't learn it. The hammer pound drills are the most effective way of teaching it, even though most won't fully "get it." He even acknowledges this in his description of the drills. It used to be that some really small percent, like on the order of 1% or less, actually "got" the hit. The point of the hammer pound drills is to bring that up to like 5%. That's a 5x increase which is huge for a teaching technique.Absolutely I'd recommend them. What they teach is what the feel of the hit is like. If you don't know how it's supposed to feel how are you ever supposed to learn how to do it? Why build your entire throw around the wrong feeling just to have to start over to build it around the correct feeling?

Your numbers are on par with what I came up with, although I'd say the 5% is/would still 1%, it's just more volume as more people get into disc golf. It's also hard to really say it's the most effective way of teaching the hit although it's a good one I typically recommend. If a player already has good form, they should be whipping their arm pretty good, so a little tweak in the wrist shouldn't be hard to adapt, although I think the correct wrist movement can happen naturally if you already have a good whip.

Exactly. The hit is the most fundamental part of the throw. You should build your whole throw around maximizing the hit.Those big muscles are much more important than arm muscles, but much less important than correct timing, aka "the hit."

I'm not sure everyone takes the time to really understand what the hammer pound drills are trying to teach. It's a whole different method of how to learn how to throw. The hammer pound drills teach you what the feel of the hit is like. You learn what it feels like to actively manipulate the weight of the disc. Then you have to transfer that feel to your throw. The drills do not teach you how to throw. You'll have to put in the work to get that feeling transferred to your throw. Once you can get that feeling when throwing from a stand still then you can start adding reach back and steps to make that feeling stronger. You'll be able to easily tell if what you're doing is helping or not because the feeling will be stronger and the disc will go farther. You will end up doing all of the stuff that sidewinder22 is talking about, but you'll do it in a way that's easiest for you rather than trying to do what's easiest for Dave F. or Ken C. Rather than trying to emulate a dozen or so different little movements you'll just build your throw in the way that's most natural and easy for you.

I think most people skip the standstill practice, and it can be frustrating even to those that do put in the work. My advice has always been to work a standstill, and I'll point out issues created by bad footwork and balance and show what good footwork and balance looks like in the finish position, which is the tuning fork of one's own form.

The funny word you put in is "natural". Most players lack natural athletic coordination and need visual feedback and demonstration to understand better. It's why they put mirrors in dancing studios to help teach posture and rhythm. It's why every sport goes over video tape analysis to find out where they lose leverage.

 

[garublador]

The funny word you put in is "natural". Most players lack natural athletic coordination and need visual feedback and demonstration to understand better. It's why they put mirrors in dancing studios to help teach posture and rhythm. It's why every sport goes over video tape analysis to find out where they lose leverage.

I agree that watching videos and posting videos of yourself is useful, but I think it's a better used as a reference than a definitive way to throw. In other words rather than trying to emulate other players you should use other players as a visual aid. I'm not claiming anyone is trying to do anything different than that when showing videos, but when you're learning it's easy to get caught up in trying to emulate a bunch of tiny stuff that might not even matter.

 

[jenb]

I think the point is the hit is the most important part. You can have perfectly clean form but if you aren't getting good acceleration at the hit your Nukes will go as far as other players putters.

I'd be ecstatic to throw any disc as far as you throw putters. :|