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Are ratings worthless?

smoothplayer

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Apr 15, 2022
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176
I was checking out the ratings from this last major event. Spoilers!




















Ricky ends up in 2nd place but somehow averaged 4 points below his rating? 1049 golf was an off week for him according to the stats. Something is wrong. He almost won yet according to the stats he was subpar Ricky.

McBeth destroys the course the last day, course record by 4 shots yet is "only" 1091?
 
4 points under his player rating is hardly "subpar". It's normal, within the margin of error.
 
Yes, ratings to me are useless. I play in an advanced division with no ceiling, therefore my rating has no meaning.

Ratings for pros, maybe useless, but I don't care.
 
I was checking out the ratings from this last major event. Spoilers!




















Ricky ends up in 2nd place but somehow averaged 4 points below his rating? 1049 golf was an off week for him according to the stats. Something is wrong. He almost won yet according to the stats he was subpar Ricky.

McBeth destroys the course the last day, course record by 4 shots yet is "only" 1091?
Think it's just the mathematics saying that the field is catching up to the 1050 guys. Their rating points are getting spread around the rest of the field. The top are playing just as well as they used to but the rest of the field is better so the gap has closed with the "lesser" players bumping up and the "better" players going down.
 
Yes, ratings to me are useless. I play in an advanced division with no ceiling, therefore my rating has no meaning.

Ratings for pros, maybe useless, but I don't care.

Yeah, the question of "worthless" depends on what worth you put on them, to begin with.

Their purpose is mainly to separate players in lower amateur divisions, roughly by skill level. They're an interesting talking point at the elite pro level, but of no great worth.

Furthermore, it's a misreading of the ratings system to assume specificity for a given round's rating. Even with their primary use (those lower ams), they're averaging many rounds to even out the variations.
 
Yeah, the question of "worthless" depends on what worth you put on them, to begin with.

Their purpose is mainly to separate players in lower amateur divisions, roughly by skill level. They're an interesting talking point at the elite pro level, but of no great worth.

Furthermore, it's a misreading of the ratings system to assume specificity for a given round's rating. Even with their primary use (those lower ams), they're averaging many rounds to even out the variations.

Would you say Ricky played below avg? He almost won. I guess for him to win he would need to play avg.
 
He played average, within a stroke or two. Ricky's good enough that sometime his average is good enough to win.

But that's assuming the ratings are precise for individual rounds. They're not. They never purported to be. So he could have played slightly above average, and still had a rating slightly below, because that's within the margin of error for a given event.
 
He played average, within a stroke or two. Ricky's good enough that sometime his average is good enough to win.

But that's assuming the ratings are precise for individual rounds. They're not. They never purported to be. So he could have played slightly above average, and still had a rating slightly below, because that's within the margin of error for a given event.

So they are not accurate. I was just wondering.
 
What's the question? Why are the ratings meaningless if Ricky got second playing 1049 golf? What is the logic to that question?
 
For figuring out what division you should plan in from the time you start until deciding when to play MPO they are useful, once you have gotten to the point where you are a clear pro I don't know how useful they are.
 
Ricky has the highest rating in the tourney and is the top ranked player. His tournament was about 2 strokes worse than his rating and he finished 2nd, by 2 strokes.

If anything, his performance validates the rating system.
 
I was checking out the ratings from this last major event. Spoilers!

Ricky ends up in 2nd place but somehow averaged 4 points below his rating? 1049 golf was an off week for him according to the stats. Something is wrong. He almost won yet according to the stats he was subpar Ricky.

McBeth destroys the course the last day, course record by 4 shots yet is "only" 1091?

I know it varies depending on course par, but 4 points is probably roughly one throw. The stats aren't saying this was an off week for Ricky. Unless you expect him to have zero variation from his rating and that's not realistic.

When Ricky's playing like Ricky, I would expect him to be in the hunt for the win week in and week out. That's what happened at Champion's Cup. He shot roughly one throw off of his rating and finished second. Seems pretty accurate to me.
 
I know it varies depending on course par, but 4 points is probably roughly one throw. The stats aren't saying this was an off week for Ricky. Unless you expect him to have zero variation from his rating and that's not realistic.

When Ricky's playing like Ricky, I would expect him to be in the hunt for the win week in and week out. That's what happened at Champion's Cup. He shot roughly one throw off of his rating and finished second. Seems pretty accurate to me.

Just a quick note here: Points per throw varies based on SSA, rather than course par. Higher SSA = few points per throw. Course/layout par doesn't factor into the ratings system at all.
 
If anyone actually thinks that Paul's -16 at the Memorial was a better round and harder to reproduce than the -16 he shot yesterday, then they are crazy. Any course with a lot of OB (artificial or not) will always produce a higher rating for the top finishers becuase there is a greater score seperation between the top of the field and the bottom. I feel that this tournament proves that the current rating system is not an accurate way to judge the quality of a round thrown.
 
I know it varies depending on course par, but 4 points is probably roughly one throw.

Just a quick note here: Points per throw varies based on SSA, rather than course par. Higher SSA = few points per throw. Course/layout par doesn't factor into the ratings system at all.

Another quick note: I never heared of a case where SSA is at 4 points per throw. It is usually in the 8-10 points per throw area.
 
Another quick note: I never heared of a case where SSA is at 4 points per throw. It is usually in the 8-10 points per throw area.

The higher the SSA the lower the points per throw. Lake Marshall Lions runs about 4.5. Jackson for the weekend was around 6.5. Makes it very hard to shoot either very high or very low ratings on the giant courses.
 
All numbers are worthless without context. If I stated out loud, "I shot 50" with no other information to provide context, the random person who heard this would have no way of knowing what it means. You might think it was a disc golf score, but it could have been a bowling score, or an animal named, 50.

Consider baseball player A who has a batting average of .375 and Player B an average of .400. Which is more impressive? If you know that Player A's .375 is based on 500 at-bats and Player B's .400 is a pitcher with 8 hits out of 20 at-bats, the additional information provides better context.

In the case of Paul's unofficial 1091 rating for a course record -16, those who have followed the par threads know that the par set by the TD may vary from the "true" par calculation. In this case, it's pretty close with the SSA coming in at 66 and the TD par at 68. However, that's enough to say Paul's round was closer to -14. Paul already had to average -8 on this course just to shoot his 1053 rating. So, he would be expected to shoot at least one, two, or even three rounds better than -8 just to tread water.

For additional context, let's look at the Best Rated rounds for courses in the 66+ SSA category on page 4. His new W.R. Jackson round will end up 3rd or 4th among his Best Ever rounds in this category. So, definitely an impressive round all-time but not unexpected relative to his other top performances on course in this SSA range.

One thing that hasn't been properly accounted for is the difference between open courses with extensive OB that pads the ratings versus almost purely wooded courses like Jackson. In that regard, we could say that Paul's round IS the most impressive so far for "traditional" wooded courses in the 66+ range.

The reason you can't fairly compare extreme ratings of the same value among different course SSA ranges is the same reason you couldn't fairly compare the .375 batting average with the .400 batting average. It's easier to produce a higher number the fewer attempts made. No doubt that the player with the .375 had stretches of 20 at-bats where they had 9, 10 or 11 hits with up to a .550 average snapshot for that period.

But there is a way to compare performances across larger SSA differences and that's to calculate the probability a player would shoot that score relative to their rating at the time. Here's the Fair Ways to Play document that explains the process and shows how to compare the top performances of a few players including Paul. I don't have the data to calculate where Paul's recent Jackson round fits in but it looks like it needed to be one stroke lower to contend for top honors among his top rounds.

In summary, Ratings are useless like any other numbers if you don't understand their origin and where they fit in context. However, without ratings we wouldn't be able to "easily" do some of these comparative analyses any other way.
 
I know it varies depending on course par, but 4 points is probably roughly one throw. The stats aren't saying this was an off week for Ricky. Unless you expect him to have zero variation from his rating and that's not realistic.

When Ricky's playing like Ricky, I would expect him to be in the hunt for the win week in and week out. That's what happened at Champion's Cup. He shot roughly one throw off of his rating and finished second. Seems pretty accurate to me.

Per round?
 

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