Beginner looking for feedback on some disc choices (and just general advice)

[Rameka]

So I'm probably going to go buy a couple discs within the next week (spring break's coming up for me, so I plan to get lots of DG in). I've been considering what you've all told me. I think I'm going to try either a roc or a comet for a mid, probably a roc.

Those are both speed 4's. Should I really bother with a gazelle to learn with, or should I just go straight to the teebird? The difference in speed is only 1, and otherwise, they supposedly act quite similar.

I doubt I'll bother with stable fairway drivers such as the cheetah and the eagle...I'm fairly used to throwing my crush, which is pretty overstable, so I figure I'll take it in steps. If I can't make the gazelle/teebird go straight, I'll try one of them, or get something slightly faster and stable, such as a valkyrie. I'm just not comfortable with the idea of having two discs overlapping that much unless I know it'll make a difference.

 

[djext1]

So much has been said already so much better and more thought out than I could ever hope to comment on. So I will only add this one extra post.

I've been playing for 14 years. Of those 14, I've only gotten serious about my game (actually working to get better) in the past couple years. I absolutely fit into the mold of "learning to throw the disc instead of learning to throw the shot". Boy do I regret all those wasted years =P

At the end of last year I was at my wits end on trying to break my personal plateau of 300ft. I just couldn't do it. I always thought "I just need to find the right disc, tweak my form, etc"....while some of that helped (working on my form), THE BIGGEST lesson I learned that broke that glass ceiling was spending a couple months going out and playing with nothing but my putter. I played all winter long (in the snow), doing no run up whatsoever, and belting a putter out there. Doing this showed me all the flaws in my game. Now that most of the snow has thawed out here, I was able to take my full bag out again a few times. Having learned how to drive with a putter, and put that putter on every line imaginable, I was able to see the course in a whole new way. I found all those fancy "fast" drivers were worthless to me right now. I don't have the armspeed and strength to gun them out the way they "are designed" to be thrown.

So basically, after a day, I reloaded my bag with slower, more stable to understable fairway drivers. It was amazing what I could with them. I found half my old bag obsolete. I realized I was throwing my older, slower drivers just as far as my fancy fast ones, except I was able to put them on a straight line if I wanted to. If I need a hyzer/anhyzer...I had that shot too.


Play for a while with your putter. When you can put a putter on a straight line for a good distance, you'll find those slower drivers are actually better.

fast doesn't equal far

Putter practice FTW!! =D

 

[cc0049]

I did not read through this whole thread, but just in case it hasn't been mentioned already: The website discgolfcenter.com shows the innova flight ratings for discs that are not made by Innova. That has been a very helpful resource for me. I too, like to use the innova ratings as a guide. I wish that there was more uniformity with all the different disc makers.
The site also gives you a difficulty rating which would be very helpful to you as a beginner.

 

[garublador]

So I'm probably going to go buy a couple discs within the next week (spring break's coming up for me, so I plan to get lots of DG in). I've been considering what you've all told me. I think I'm going to try either a roc or a comet for a mid, probably a roc.

Those are both speed 4's. Should I really bother with a gazelle to learn with, or should I just go straight to the teebird? The difference in speed is only 1, and otherwise, they supposedly act quite similar.

I doubt I'll bother with stable fairway drivers such as the cheetah and the eagle...I'm fairly used to throwing my crush, which is pretty overstable, so I figure I'll take it in steps. If I can't make the gazelle/teebird go straight, I'll try one of them, or get something slightly faster and stable, such as a valkyrie. I'm just not comfortable with the idea of having two discs overlapping that much unless I know it'll make a difference.

If you want to try something faster than the Cheetah/Gazelle, I'd highly recommend the DX Eagle-X over the Teebird. The Teebird is an excellent disc, but it's difficult to throw for its speed and difficult to use as a tool for improving technique. The problem is that if you get it turned over just a bit too much it will hold that turn, or turn more and not come back. That will make diagnosing problems difficult and it will make learning line shaping really difficult. Having a disc that turns more and fades more (aka more "workable") like the Eagle-X, Cyclone, Gazelle or Cheetah will make the learning process much easier and faster.

 

[Rameka]

Hmm...the eagle, Cyclone and Eagle have the same ratings (-1/3 turn/fade), and the Cheetah is just slightly more understable than those two (-2/2), but the Gazelle is overstable (0/2).

I just don't understand why you group it in with those others... the Teebird is closer in ratings to the Gazelle than any of those other discs, but it's just slightly faster. Also, the Eagle and the Cyclone are both speed 7, like the Teebird.

 

[garublador]

I'm not sure where you're getting your rating numbers, but I don't agree with them. I'd use this guide instead:

http://gottagogottathrow.com/discgo...1.pdf?osCsid=dc36220f1af06c56cda98269aa419523

Keep in mind that the ratings reflect an average across plastics with judgement calls being used when there's a large discrepency (like with the Cyclone, the Z version is way more overstable and has little glide).

The Cyclone and Gazelle are extremely close in both speed and flight. The Cyclone has slightly more turn and slightly more fade than the Gazelle, but the differences are minimal. The Cheetah is the same speed but has more turn than either and fades about like a Gazelle.

The Eagle-X and Teebird have the same speed (one notch faster than the Cyclone, Gazelle and Cyclone) and the Eagle-X has more turn and more fade than the Teebird. The Teebird works best on slight hyzers and straight shots (both very useful, which is why the disc is so popular). It doesn't fight to fade back if turned over as strongly as any of the other discs I've mentioned in this post, especally when it gets a little beat. That means it's not great for many turnovers (the number of lines is limited) and most, 'S' shots. These are charictaristics of the discs' flight that are not represented in most disc rating numbering schemes, which is why forums are so useful.

If you want more evidence on what I'm saying about the speeds of the discs, look at the specs on these discs from the PDGA:

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/PDGA_approved_discs_012009.pdf

You'll notice that the listed "speed" of a disc is directly proportional to the "Rim Thickness" spec. You'll also notice that the Cyclone, Cheetah and Gazelle all have the same rim thickness (1.6cm) and the Teebird and Eagle both have a bit wider (1.7cm) thickness.

 

[Rameka]

Hmm, interesting. I was looking at the ratings on discgolfcenter.com. I'll look over Joe's ratings and reconsider.

 

[BrotherDave]

I did not read through this whole thread, but just in case it hasn't been mentioned already: The website discgolfcenter.com shows the innova flight ratings for discs that are not made by Innova. That has been a very helpful resource for me. I too, like to use the innova ratings as a guide. I wish that there was more uniformity with all the different disc makers.
The site also gives you a difficulty rating which would be very helpful to you as a beginner.

I don't know if you've seen this yet but this puts all the discs in the same chart. Not the most reader friendly but its better than nothing.
http://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/disc_golf_flightguide.html

 

[Rameka]

I just tried playing my whole local course with just my Challenger (FLX) putter and it was hellishly difficult. I turned the damn thing over on almost every shot. I CANNOT drive that disc! And it's supposed to be overstable! I guess it just can't handle the amount of power I put into it. It doesn't matter if I throw it on the steepest hyzer flip, it will turn over. The strange thing is, I get the most long-distance accuracy with it when I throw overhand.

I'm itching to try a midrange. As soon as I find the local disc vendor (there's a guy who wanders around my course and sells discs for a lot cheaper than the disc shop lady across the street) I'm gonna flag him and try to buy a Roc and a Gazelle off him to play around with.

 

[djext1]

Putter driving takes practice, but it will expose a ton of flaws in your form and technique. I don't know anything about the challenger, but most any putter or midrange will flip on you with too much power...the key is being able to learn the proper form with full power that keeps it from turning. You should basically be able to take any putter, and with full power throw (for lack of better terms), be able to put it out straight and far...it should fly in a perfectly straight line, and fall in a perfectly straight line.

It's tough to get used to, but you can do it. Once you can do that, your form will be much better with mids and drivers as well. It's all about shaping lines and control. What playing with putters does is basically "reset" your form, and get you throwing proper again. Anytime my game starts getting a 'hitch' in it somewhere with my drives, I spend the next couple rounds i throw using just a putter or some midrange like a skeeter or coyote.

 

[garublador]

I gurantee you aren't overpowering a Challenger unless it's a really, really freaky understable run, but I haven't heard of any runs of any putter that are that off. It's almost definitely off-axis torque that's making the Challenger turn over. Challengers can be thrown at least 350' without turing over.

 

[Rameka]

I've been practicing and I can drive it without turning it over now, but my D needs serious improving...I find it's REALLY difficult to get a clean release parallel to the plane of the throw with the FLX plastic. It's really bendy and it sort of wobbles as I throw and gets OAT even when I grip it really hard. I guess it's a work in progress...I think I might try it in a harder plastic, though.

 

[garublador]

I've been practicing and I can drive it without turning it over now, but my D needs serious improving...I find it's REALLY difficult to get a clean release parallel to the plane of the throw with the FLX plastic. It's really bendy and it sort of wobbles as I throw and gets OAT even when I grip it really hard. I guess it's a work in progress...I think I might try it in a harder plastic, though.

That's what I'd do. I'm not a fan of bendy plastic for that reason.

 

[Texconsinite]

That's what I'd do. I'm not a fan of bendy plastic for that reason.

I second that. I get enough OAT without bendy plastic adding to it, thank you very much.

 

[80playedin10states]

the flx predator(supposed to be overstable) "wobbled" when it left my hand...a gimmick that doesnt suit my arm..who the heck throws challengers 350'? ...maybe 10 percent or less of the golfers today...

 

[garublador]

the flx predator(supposed to be overstable) "wobbled" when it left my hand...a gimmick that doesnt suit my arm..who the heck throws challengers 350'? ...maybe 10 percent or less of the golfers today...

Not very many, I'd guess less than 10%. My point is that they can be thrown that far without turing over, so unless you're in the top tier of disc golfer when it comes to distance, you aren't generating enough speed to flip a Challenger like that. In fact, I'm not even sure the top tier of disc golfers can flip a Challenger like that with a clean throw.

 

[Rameka]

I bought a couple of discs the other day. The guy at my course that sells discs for cheaper didn't have a gazelle or a cheetah around, but he had the Polaris LS (which I was considering anyways) so I picked that up. According to the charts it acts like a slightly more understable gazelle. So far I really quite like it...I can make it go pretty straight. I'm not sure if I like it better than the Crush, but I've only used it once so far, so it'll probably grow on me. What do you guys think of the Polaris? Was that a good choice of disc to learn with better?

I also picked up a glow Roc. It seems like a pretty decent disc. I went to the course the other evening with my girlfriend and we played in the dark (she got one too). One thing I remember is being surprised at how much lift the thing had...I went to retrieve it a few times and found it about 20~40 feet further from where I'd thought it landed (sometimes a good thing, sometimes not).

Also, one more question. I tossed my friend's piranha the other day and damn...that thing is awesome. The grip is great and it flies straight for a mile. Do any of you know of any discs that are currently in print that are similar to the piranha? It had a sort of trashcan-lid lip with no curvature, and the top of the flight-plate had a little "thumbtrac" (I guess that's what they call it?) groove. If there aren't any in-print discs like that, I may have to order a piranha from some websites that still carry them.

 

[80playedin10states]

flip a challenger?...c'mon dude...they are a putter and flip very easily..i throw over 400 with drivers and im lucky to get a putter out to 300..to throw a putter that far you have to put alot behind it...which will make it flip over..

 

[Rameka]

Well...I'm kinda new and lucky to get a driver out past 300... I think the reason my challenger flips over (as discussed above) is that I'm putting a lot of OAT into it. FLX is a really floppy plastic, so it's hard not to do that. I'm going to try a harder putter for slow drives, and just use my challenger for putting.

Anyone have feedback about the Polaris, or an answer to my Piranha question?

 

[Fore]

I believe the Birdie is similar to the Piranha, it has the thumbtrac and is shaped like a lid.