Can anyone throw 500'?

[Jussi Alanko]

In this video Kristian Kuoksa throws 228 meters or in imperial units 748 feet, and it came with normal run-up, there was no 360 run up, and he throws almost 750 feet, and the wind was very calm, so these results are not coming with a massive wind blowing the discs further than they fly naturally.

Kristian is only 20 years old now, so he has even more potential.

And he is not kind of one throw wonder, he can throw very accurately both BH and FH, he has a PDGA rating 1022 right now!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TFjMT9UKM8

Video is in finnish but it has english subtitles...

 

[HyzerRoc]

And this is the practice they facilitate in the training facility that is used by both swedish and finnish players. Something leads me to believe that these guys will take over more and more of the pro tour. At least I am not aware of a similar training program for american disc golfers.



What I noticed in your video of him - the way he holds his arm in place instead of swinging it back reminds me a lot of Niklas Anttila. You can always tell the angle he is going for well in advance just looking tat the way he holds the arm.

 

[RowingBoats]

And this is the practice they facilitate in the training facility that is used by both swedish and finnish players. Something leads me to believe that these guys will take over more and more of the pro tour. At least I am not aware of a similar training program for american disc golfers.



What I noticed in your video of him - the way he holds his arm in place instead of swinging it back reminds me a lot of Niklas Anttila. You can always tell the angle he is going for well in advance just looking tat the way he holds the arm.

Ya, this sport has not yet even begun to see the actual potential of genetic athletic freaks, trained from birth to throw discs. It will get crazy eventually.

 

[blayed]

And this is the practice they facilitate in the training facility that is used by both swedish and finnish players. Something leads me to believe that these guys will take over more and more of the pro tour. At least I am not aware of a similar training program for american disc golfers.



What I noticed in your video of him - the way he holds his arm in place instead of swinging it back reminds me a lot of Niklas Anttila. You can always tell the angle he is going for well in advance just looking tat the way he holds the arm.

A big part of this is because they can't throw during the off-season. In America the pros just live in Arizona/Florida and play DG year round. I know Simon lives in MA but that is just … asinine

 

[txmxer]

Has anyone calculated the minimum average speed a disc needs to travel to make it 500'? I was in a newer shop outside of KC (Albatross in Lenexa), and they had a net and speed gun set up. I asked how much it cost and he said it was free. Shop has a board on the wall with highest speeds FH and BH by player rating. So, you can come in and try to get your name on the board. Very cool. So it turns out I can throw 62mph. On a football field I can get over 400 only occasionally.

How fast does 500' need to go?

Funny, I clicked this thread because I was thinking about speed versus distance.

Particularly since I'm throwing off hand and my speed is even slower. BTW, 62 mph is impressive IMO.

So I have one of those coach meters and have used it amongst my friends. Although angles and such matter, average distance and speed seem to be highly correlated.

OTOH, throwing offhand at much slower speed, I've seen huge differences in disc flight depending on things like nose angle. No idea about spin, but I think the general consensus is you need a minimum spin rate for optimal flight, but higher spin doesn't really impact distance.

 

[txmxer]

And this is the practice they facilitate in the training facility that is used by both swedish and finnish players. Something leads me to believe that these guys will take over more and more of the pro tour. At least I am not aware of a similar training program for american disc golfers.



What I noticed in your video of him - the way he holds his arm in place instead of swinging it back reminds me a lot of Niklas Anttila. You can always tell the angle he is going for well in advance just looking tat the way he holds the arm.

Oh boy—Ivan Drago in disc golf!

 

[seedlings]

Oh boy—Ivan Drago in disc golf!

I am very curious if strength training big muscle groups (Ezra++) significantly helps, or if disc golf is more a swimmer/runner bodystyle? Because it seems like the lanky guys do just fine at this moment. Could be the Hercules types take over.

 

[nothinbuttree]

I am very curious if strength training big muscle groups (Ezra++) significantly helps, or if disc golf is more a swimmer/runner bodystyle? Because it seems like the lanky guys do just fine at this moment. Could be the Hercules types take over.

Seems Paige (FPO) and Emerson (MPO) do pretty good having smaller statures, so I would surmise form is more important, but that's just my opinion. Whatever is needed to generate maximum release speed and spin. Eagle and AB, though certainly tall, don't seem to be buff by any stretch. Those are probably 2 of the top 3 or 4 distance guys right now...

 

[nothinbuttree]

Not to mention some of the kids throwing 450+, with hardly any muscle mass at all. Those are the people that amaze me the most.

 

[nothinbuttree]

Does anyone know of any speed measuring devices in the OH/IN/MI/KY area? Our local shop had one but they started using that space for stock and its not been up in a few years.

 

[txmxer]

I am very curious if strength training big muscle groups (Ezra++) significantly helps, or if disc golf is more a swimmer/runner bodystyle? Because it seems like the lanky guys do just fine at this moment. Could be the Hercules types take over.

It's like any sport. Training will help.

Someone was talking about conditioning recently (cardio). I am certain that that helps a lot. Being able to play a round and feel near 100% at the end or after a walk up a hill or whatever allows them to make their best effort.

A lot of what is in the video isn't about pure power but flexibility along with some amount of strength building, but not weight lifting type strength.

Football players discovered that yoga type workouts enhanced their game. You hear things like "core strength" and I think that's the kind of thing that applies across all athletic endeavors. All those things make for a healthy body foundation.

But, being good at disc golf is a skill set. The foundation allows you to work more on the skill set and recover and work some more to hone the skill set.

 

[bryantlikes]

It's like any sport. Training will help.

Someone was talking about conditioning recently (cardio). I am certain that that helps a lot. Being able to play a round and feel near 100% at the end or after a walk up a hill or whatever allows them to make their best effort.

A lot of what is in the video isn't about pure power but flexibility along with some amount of strength building, but not weight lifting type strength.

Football players discovered that yoga type workouts enhanced their game. You hear things like "core strength" and I think that's the kind of thing that applies across all athletic endeavors. All those things make for a healthy body foundation.

But, being good at disc golf is a skill set. The foundation allows you to work more on the skill set and recover and work some more to hone the skill set.

I think this is spot on. Look at Golf or Formula 1 racers. Both of those fields have almost unlimited training resources and the focus for those both seem to be core strength, flexibility, and some resistance training for specific muscle groups. Coming from a cycling background where you don't want to bulk up I feel like disc golf is very similar in that you want to be lean, fit, and have really good core strength to perform your best. None of that is required, but I think players can benefit from it.

 

[Brychanus]

I think this is spot on. Look at Golf or Formula 1 racers. Both of those fields have almost unlimited training resources and the focus for those both seem to be core strength, flexibility, and some resistance training for specific muscle groups. Coming from a cycling background where you don't want to bulk up I feel like disc golf is very similar in that you want to be lean, fit, and have really good core strength to perform your best. None of that is required, but I think players can benefit from it.

The only thing I have to add is "never skip leg day."

One point of articles like the one I shared elsewhere is that training demands and phases are not linearly additive to outcomes, and their are different types of athletic recruitment of body tissues. Baseball is well-developed in this area so I like to learn from it. No one should argue that baseball pitchers have well-developed technique to deliver their 90+mph fastballs. If you aren't in good enough condition to do that, you won't do that. If you are in good enough condition to do that, you might need to further optimize for incremental gains.
https://treadathletics.com/high-velocity-training/

Also not trivial that Aderhold was a swimmer before he moved to disc golf, which has a lot of the neuromuscular sequence in common in addition to his excellent fitness.

Plenty out there about pitching and related sports throwing body training regimens that are relevant to disc golf.

 

[timothy42b]

The only thing I have to add is "never skip leg day."

Sisco and Little, advocates of HIT training at longer intervals, had a pithy little saying:

Every day is kidney day.

 

[Brychanus]

Sisco and Little, advocates of HIT training at longer intervals, had a pithy little saying:

I actually LOLed, thank you

 

[LYang]

 

[Sheep]

This is great.
I talk about mobility and the differences between us as golfers a lot.
It seems to get ignored, so thanks for posting about this.


Lets also have a shout out to the gym for this great cable management.

 

[Brychanus]

This is great.
I talk about mobility and the differences between us as golfers a lot.
It seems to get ignored, so thanks for posting about this.

Thanks @LYang, these are great.

I especially like how in the Mass video starting ~8:22 he discussed fundamental principles and range of motion (which mobility ideally increases).

There's always a bit of a confound in early developmental data because people are still growing anyway, but from the studies I've perused it seems like his overall advice is sound.

For a casual DG player and especially adults, mobility tends to be lower than needed for elite RoM, and lean mass is usually lower/distributed less than ideally for the task.

I also like that he explicitly discussed "fast twitch" types.

As an anecdote/self-experiment, I have taken advice like this and changed workout habits to:
1. Mobility work in every workout.
2. Regained/added mass in (pathologically weak) lower body and decreased lean mass slightly in upper body.
3. Cut some fatty mass.
4. Loaded and unloaded fast-twitch training (data elsewhere suggest this matters more for slow twitch & shorter-levered people). This also seems to function better after you push out your peak strength for a given muscle (which is kind of a boundary condition for the peak force it can exert & transfer).
5. Stagger throwing and workout days. Mobility seems to work fine any day. Heavy strength or maximum fast-twitch training should not be the day before significant throwing - can occur the day of throwing, but only afterward.

 

[Sheep]

Thanks @LYang, these are great.

I especially like how in the Mass video starting ~8:22 he discussed fundamental principles and range of motion (which mobility ideally increases).

There's always a bit of a confound in early developmental data because people are still growing anyway, but from the studies I've perused it seems like his overall advice is sound.

For a casual DG player and especially adults, mobility tends to be lower than needed for elite RoM, and lean mass is usually lower/distributed less than ideally for the task.

I also like that he explicitly discussed "fast twitch" types.

As an anecdote/self-experiment, I have taken advice like this and changed workout habits to:
1. Mobility work in every workout.
2. Regained/added mass in (pathologically weak) lower body and decreased lean mass slightly in upper body.
3. Cut some fatty mass.
4. Loaded and unloaded fast-twitch training (data elsewhere suggest this matters more for slow twitch & shorter-levered people). This also seems to function better after you push out your peak strength for a given muscle (which is kind of a boundary condition for the peak force it can exert & transfer).
5. Stagger throwing and workout days. Mobility seems to work fine any day. Heavy strength or maximum fast-twitch training should not be the day before significant throwing - can occur the day of throwing, but only afterward.

Buddy mentioned blitz earlier today and was talking about how great he is from a standstill.
I'm like "dude, he's a bodybuilder..."

he cuts me off "muscles have nothing to do with that."
I wanted to facepalm so hard.

Because he doesn't understand fast twitch muscles and muscle timing engagement. like... You're not wrongish, but your far from right either bro.
The point of him being a body builder is he knows and understands how to isolate and activate. oh well. I just rolled my eyes.

How mobile we are and how we are able to engage our body is a big part of the picture.

However, while overall mobility isn't "as" necessary for casuals. I think it could improve their game lesson wise getting them into warmups increasing their mobility to help them be more relaxed and gain more effort through mobility vs trying to try to hard.

Low mobility throwers are some of the hardest to work with swing wise.

 

[HyzerRoc]

For a casual DG player and especially adults, mobility tends to be lower than needed for elite RoM, and lean mass is usually lower/distributed less than ideally for the task.

I also like that he explicitly discussed "fast twitch" types.

As an anecdote/self-experiment, I have taken advice like this and changed workout habits to:
1. Mobility work in every workout.
2. Regained/added mass in (pathologically weak) lower body and decreased lean mass slightly in upper body.

This year I have done more workouts and especially some mobility work and a lot of stretching to get a better basis to work from.

Especially doing mobility work that goes through full RoM of a joint is really beneficial as it practices just moving and controlling that joint consciously.

Just doing this one a couple of times made it much easier to control the movement of my hips in a throw.


From doing workouts focused on muscle, I have noticed that an occasional workout (like every 2 weeks) for my rotator cuff was enough to allow for a high volume of throws without shoulder pain (but still exhaustion after a long day). The first 2 exercises were recommended to me by 2 former handball players that played a lot as it helps to stabilise the joint when doing it with a high volume but not a ton of resistance. I would only add a towel between the upper arm and the body so you have something to push off of and not collapse the shoulder.



Also in the spirit of the general thread, a lot of casual discgolfers lack a solid athletic background and struggle with exercises that, to me, seem easy like doing lateral lunges. In all the sports I did with a trainer and a regular schedule, like a third of a practice sessions was dedicated to workouts, another third to drills and the last third if not less was doing the actual sport.