Can't figure out what's holding me back

[loki993]

Ok I think I'm starting to get frustrated and a bit discouraged. I'm still having fun and that what matters but I want improvement and I'm just not getting any. I'm getting worse if anything.

I've only been playing about a year, so I know I'm still new, but still. I really started playing a lot this year and for over a month now I've been consistently playing at least once a week, mostly twice and hitting the field at least once a week, when it wasn't a swamp from rain.

I'm not seeing any distance improvement at all, my accuracy is ok but I still spray the disc around a bit so really not much improvement there either, maybe a little. I'm maxing everything at about 220 230 maybe in the field...on the course 200. My putters less than that. To do that I'm nearly pulling my arm out, not that it changes it all that much. I see other guys in league, a lot of other guys ie nearly all, overthrow 320 foot holes on easy throws. I was watching a guy throw a roc 330 no problem on an easy throw last night.


I don't even get that one throw that just bombs and I don't know what I did, it's definitely consistent, and its consistently bad.


I have a tye dye buzzz that I like to throw because its nearly half one color and half another, so when I throw it I can see how much spin i'm putting on it. From what I can see its very little. The thing is I know I have a major form flaw, but I've looked at every video, read every article I can find and I can't seem to find what I'm doing wrong.

I got the reach back and pull through to the pec ok I think, but after that I have no idea what to do and every video or article I see completely skips that part, the extension once your arm gets to the point it can go forward anymore. I know its all supposed to be a natural flow but there is something there that I have to be missing. I've tried different thing and nothing seems to help. I'm sure I could probably resort to bad form, curo my wrist the try and force snap or something like that to get a little improvement short term, but I don't want to do that.

I see other people throw and they get the nice snap or pop at the end of their throw. Not an audible thing, but you can tell there is something happening. When they're disc comes out its got some pretty serious rotation on it. I don't get that. I can throw fairly easily or pull my arm out and I get nearly the same spin. I think it may be something with my wrist. I try to keep it straight, but I dont think its loading or releasing properly...or at all really.


I think I just need to find someone that can watch me and say hey thats what your doing wrong and maybe I'll get it. I've been taking to the guy at the disc shop by me a bit and he seems cool, I think he'd help me out if I asked. I just would really like to see some results here thats all or at least get to a point where Im like ok now I get it.

 

[the1discChallenge]

Have you videoed yourself throwing? Even a phone video or something will help a lot. I know if I'm stuck on a part of my game and I think I'm doing it correctly, a video will help pick out the problem really quickly. Also if you could post here, forum members could help out as well.

 

[hipster]

Try a 2 or 3 finger power grip and let the disc snap out of your grip instead of releasing the disc to get more spin.

 

[notroman]

wall of text

If you can drive down to Am Nats in June I'm sure I can find an hour or two to spend with you in a field somewhere and see what you're doing.

 

[sidewinder22]

^ I'm not positive of the OP grip either, so that would certainly be a good starting point.




This whole thread discusses the outward motion of what you are asking. Read it, read it again.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13291

 

[Nuke]

My initial reactions are that you are probably rotating your throw rather than pulling in a line and, most probably, you are releasing the disc. That's a problem I have to a great degree. I can't force the concept throw my head that to accurately throw a frisbee (for simplicity's sake) that I have to let it rip out of my grip and not let go of it at the point I want to for control. Beyond that, I wouldn't worry about avoiding bending your wrist or forcing elbow bend. You need to force snap/spin to see what it feels like. So many on here preach a straight pull at all costs, disc MUST travel in a straight line in the pull to be good, but watch some of these vids and tell me that these guys don't initiate an elbow bend or pull completely straight, just isn't realistic, especially Nikko. My 2 cents...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_TMmFlC4wo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKPZmZDxP9s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBQ4SkpWpRU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL7WLmRH9JQ

 

[Jkoz]

When you are out at leagues just ask someone that can throw far to show you their grip. Most folks don't mind sharing their grip/technique. You just have to ask.

 

[JFibeZZZ]

Man its all in your technique. Do NOT expect to perfect your form in one year. Going on four years now and it JUST started clicking for me. But take JKOZ's advice, go play a tournament!! Register in rec or am and ask a million questions. I feel like that was the turning point in my technique was my first tourney.

 

[Puckstopper]

I'm not seeing any distance improvement at all, my accuracy is ok but I still spray the disc around a bit so really not much improvement there either, maybe a little. I'm maxing everything at about 220 230 maybe in the field...on the course 200. My putters less than that. To do that I'm nearly pulling my arm out, not that it changes it all that much. I see other guys in league, a lot of other guys ie nearly all, overthrow 320 foot holes on easy throws. I was watching a guy throw a roc 330 no problem on an easy throw last night.
.

^^ There's your problem, right there in bold. Now, I could be wrong about this, but I recently had a breakthrough related to trying to develop distance by overthrowing, and this may help you too.

A little bit of backstory: I've recently seen my distance improving slightly. The second hole at Hambrick is a downhill shot (~10' drop on a 303' hole) and until recently I'd thrown a fairway driver here. However, due to my increased distance I'm kind of between discs on this hole. Fairway at full power will go long, but I'll probably be short with a mid. So I decided to throw a Teebird and take quite a bit off it. Long story short that 'Bird ripped WAY past the hole and ended up dangerously close to finding it's way down a hill The throw itself felt AMAZING. So fluid and controlled, and tons of distance with very little effort. But since it was a downhill hole I obviously needed more evidence before deciding I was on to something. Basically, after 45 more holes yesterday and today I can safely say that "powering down" has done more to increase my distance than any other technique I've tried. Now I just have to find the happy medium where I'm getting maximum controlled distance.

But my advice to you would be to concentrate on throwing softer rather than dislocating your arm. I do concentrate on snapping my arm after reaching mid-chest, and my other area of focus has been maintaining my wrist position and not letting it roll over and impart OAT. By not trying to muscle every throw I can concentrate more on accuracy and feel. Nothing I've said here is original, and it's all been said before here, but sometimes it's just something you need to stumble on/feel for yourself before it clicks. Try throwing a change-up instead of a fastball on every drive, and see if it works for you.

 

[DavidInIowa]

The energy you are expending is not being used to make the disc fly. Going out to 200 feet shouldn't take any serious exertion. I assume it is because you are:

#1 not being relaxed. You can't get your arm moving fast by using the muscles in your arm. That's not how the human body works. You keep your arm relaxed and the rest of the body (mostly your powerful back) does the work.


#2 not correctly "gripping and ripping" with your hand. If the disc slips out of your hand instead of being ejected then all of your mighty power is irrelevant. Imagine if your hand was all lubed up and the disc kept slipping out midthrow. Wouldn't that make it completely fricken impossible to throw very far? Even if you were a champion bodybuilder you couldn't make 100 feet. That's basically what happens if you have a limp grip at the moment of release.

I still suck and I rarely get all of the ingredients of a good throw together. Just because I can make an educated guess about your problem doesn't mean I know how teach you anything. You'll have to rely on the more experienced posters for practical advice.

 

[BrotherDave]

I'm maxing everything at about 220 230 maybe in the field...on the course 200. My putters less than that. To do that I'm nearly pulling my arm out, not that it changes it all that much.

Dude, follow through before you hurt yourself. Your throwing mechanics should make you follow through naturally.

Also, make sure you're staying loose and smooth until the crucial point when the disc reaches the end of the whip which is where you want to pinch hard. That's where a great deal of spin comes from. It seems backwards to what you want to do but timing that hard pinch at the right point, like you're trying to hold onto the disc, is really important.

 

[eegor]

Puckstopper's advice may be what you're looking for. Smooth is far... with the right grip.

Throwing hard wastes energy. The smooth transfer of power to the release point (snap) is where the distance is. Stop the wrist the last instant before full extension. That will add spin. When I started doing that, I started hearing the snap on release. By all means, follow through with your arm.

An injury slowed down my throwing motion and ended up adding about 75-100 feet to my distance. I'm old too, so keeping the motion slow is getting easier every day. Just relax and be smooth. The distance will come and you will be able to throw all day. I can easily play three rounds back to back.

Don't forget the most important thing... this is FUN! If you're not having fun, step back, take a deep breath, grin, then throw.

 

[Oregon_Nole]

I think there might be an echo in here. Slow it down, concentrate on being smooth.


Oh, one thing that really helped me to 1) stay on plane 2) put more snap on it is making sure my wrist is positioned correctly. Act like you're shaking someone's hand, notice how the bone in your hand that connects to your thumb is more in line with your forearm? That's how your wrist should be when you throw.

 

[BrotherDave]

I think there might be an echo in here. Slow it down, concentrate on being smooth.


Oh, one thing that really helped me to 1) stay on plane 2) put more snap on it is making sure my wrist is positioned correctly. Act like you're shaking someone's hand, notice how the bone* in your hand that connects to your thumb is more in line with your forearm? That's how your wrist should be when you throw.

1st metacarpal for clarification.

 

[loki993]

Have you videoed yourself throwing? Even a phone video or something will help a lot. I know if I'm stuck on a part of my game and I think I'm doing it correctly, a video will help pick out the problem really quickly. Also if you could post here, forum members could help out as well.

I did any I posted it, there were problem and I tried to correct them,I was rounding the throw, but actually lost distance. Which I actually figured would happen since I was changing significantly, but its not coming back or improving.

If you can drive down to Am Nats in June I'm sure I can find an hour or two to spend with you in a field somewhere and see what you're doing.

thanks for that, who knows by then. They guy bombing the roc was actually wearing an Am Nats shirt, dont know if he actually played it, but by the way he was throwing It wouldn't surprise me. I should have asked him, but it was my first time in that league and so was just getting a feel for the dynamic.

My initial reactions are that you are probably rotating your throw rather than pulling in a line and, most probably, you are releasing the disc. That's a problem I have to a great degree. I can't force the concept throw my head that to accurately throw a frisbee (for simplicity's sake) that I have to let it rip out of my grip and not let go of it at the point I want to for control. Beyond that, I wouldn't worry about avoiding bending your wrist or forcing elbow bend. You need to force snap/spin to see what it feels like. So many on here preach a straight pull at all costs, disc MUST travel in a straight line in the pull to be good, but watch some of these vids and tell me that these guys don't initiate an elbow bend or pull completely straight, just isn't realistic, especially Nikko. My 2 cents...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_TMmFlC4wo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKPZmZDxP9s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBQ4SkpWpRU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL7WLmRH9JQ

I am definitely releasing because when I don't I grip lock and it goes right because Im not getting any snap at the end unless I force it
.

Man its all in your technique. Do NOT expect to perfect your form in one year. Going on four years now and it JUST started clicking for me. But take JKOZ's advice, go play a tournament!! Register in rec or am and ask a million questions. I feel like that was the turning point in my technique was my first tourney.

I know its still early and no I won't get it right away, its just I would expect some improvement over time or at least a lightbulb or two and its not happening.

I go to at least one league night a week and tried a tourney last month. I was dead last in the tourney and it was 45 degrees and snowed in the morning lol, but it was still a lot of fun.

^^ There's your problem, right there in bold. Now, I could be wrong about this, but I recently had a breakthrough related to trying to develop distance by overthrowing, and this may help you too.

Heres the thing with the hard throwing it was an example, the real takeaway from that, and I should have been more clear about it, is I can throw it really hard and not hard at all and the distance is not that much different. Most of the time I throw I an trying to start slow and accelerate late. Im also not stopping, I get a decent followthrough, if I don't the disc probably would even come out, I need to get that followthrough to get the disc to rip.

The energy you are expending is not being used to make the disc fly. Going out to 200 feet shouldn't take any serious exertion. I assume it is because you are:

#1 not being relaxed. You can't get your arm moving fast by using the muscles in your arm. That's not how the human body works. You keep your arm relaxed and the rest of the body (mostly your powerful back) does the work.


#2 not correctly "gripping and ripping" with your hand. If the disc slips out of your hand instead of being ejected then all of your mighty power is irrelevant. Imagine if your hand was all lubed up and the disc kept slipping out midthrow. Wouldn't that make it completely fricken impossible to throw very far? Even if you were a champion bodybuilder you couldn't make 100 feet. That's basically what happens if you have a limp grip at the moment of release.

I still suck and I rarely get all of the ingredients of a good throw together. Just because I can make an educated guess about your problem doesn't mean I know how teach you anything. You'll have to rely on the more experienced posters for practical advice.

No I totally agree thats why I know there is something seriously wrong. 200 should be nothing. I do have issues with the relaxing thing and that needs work.

As for the grip I've tried tons of different ones trying to find one makes the disc do what I want it to or get more rip. I've tried a power, 2 finger, 3 finger. Maybe I can snap a few pics of my different grips. Could be a bit of the problem too trying so many in a short time.


Thanks for all the advice though I appreciate that. I do need to get another video, maybe in the field tonight.

I threw a little yesterday because I was messing around and may have kinda figured why my wrist wasn't loading. I think I was trying to keep it straight with my forearm, which you're supposed to do, but when I come around I may actually keep it locked so I may be out in front of the disc. I tried to consciously breakdown my wrist as my arm bent and really concentrate on popping hard at the end and it seemed like the discs started to fly right. I'm not sure though because I wasn't in either of the fields I usually use so I had no baseline for how far I was throwing.

I also do have plane issues as I throw nose up a lot. I think thats my footwork at least a bit though because when I really concentrate on planting and rotating on my front heel and not my front toe the disc flattens out and even comes out a bit low so most likely I'm probably even dropping my front shoulder a bit, but one thing at a time here lol.

I'm gonna try to talk to the guy at the shop too hes talked about helping the noobs before so I know he can give me some pointers.

Any other advice is always greatly appreciated.

Especially on my wrist because I think thats the thing that confuses me the most. We are not supposed to cock it, I know that, keep it straight. Eventually it has to break down though right? At the end of the throw any I just supposed to let it release naturally or should I be snapping my wrist to get the pop? When I concentrate on keeping my WRIST in a straight line all the way through it seems to help, but I don't know if its right. Also its much easier in slowmo in the kitchen then out on the field lol

The biggest thing is I'm now and I want to make sure I don't pick up bad habits early and do it right from the beginning. That way I don't have to go back and unlearn the bad stuff.

Also I know it sounds like I'm frustrated, and I am, but it still is and I am still having fun. I would just like to be better at it though. My goal in all this is to be at least competitive with other people. If love to be able to be competitive in tourneys too, at least local ones.

 

[JFibeZZZ]

Yeah man but I guarantee you learned atleast ONE thing from that tournament. I would say on my distance off the teepadiI increase it by 50 foot per year. Started out throwing nukes 200 foot, am now throwing katanas and bosses 400 foot. But you know what they say, drive for show and putt for dough. I quit worrying about getting better distance and started worrying about disc placement. Set yourself up for par each hole and eventually you will get good enough to start hitting birdies my friend

 

[loki993]

Oh I know I'd just like it to be respectable thats all. Right now its not .

I do try to practice my putting quite a bit and actually when its on its the best part of my game. Its easy to practice putting in the backyard, even in the house lol. Driving not so much. Bad thing is it usually breaks down during league night lol. So its not as good as it needs to be, but thats just more practice.

 

[Jax11]

notroman throws his rocks 350ft+ on hyzer flip frozen ropes, has a deep understanding of technique and flight mechanics, and is a patient helpful teacher/coach. If you are serious about getting better I would jump at his offer.

He also just shot an unofficial 1037 rated round this past weekend!:thmbup:

 

[Uncle Dougie]

If you can drive down to Am Nats in June I'm sure I can find an hour or two to spend with you in a field somewhere and see what you're doing.

@notroman, do you ever make it out to Rockford ever? Anna Page? I'd be grateful to have some coaching or help with my form.

Sorry to go off-topic for a moment.

 

[Jax11]

@notroman, do you ever make it out to Rockford ever? Anna Page? I'd be grateful to have some coaching or help with my form.

Sorry to go off-topic for a moment.

Don't mean to speak for him, but our group goes out to Rockford a couple times a year. I know him and I were discussing heading over there this upcoming weekend for the Plastic Addicts Tourney. I don't think a tourney would be a good setting for form drilling though.

Will you be playing this weekend?