Control Driver Woes

[Mike C]

I'm having trouble settling on a control driver. I carry a Wizard and Buzz, and can push the Buzz out to 380-390' on a good throw in the open, but typically use it most in the 325-375 range depending on elevation, low ceilings and stuff like that. My control driver is the disc to bridge the gap between my Buzz and Orc, which is the distance driver that's worked best for me so far (Throw it in the 400-440' range typically, can go a little under or over that if needed). I also carry Predators for headwinds, OH's and FH distance rollers. My control drivers are primarily used for hyzer shots in the 350-390' range, though being able to hold an anhyzer is something else I value.

What I want is something pretty stable without a drastic fade, readily available in premium plastics (Baseline would be a plus too), preferably something that once I beat them in I could cover turnovers, anhyzers and BH rollers with them too. I'm not opposed to using two molds to cover my fairway driver shots, but I think I can do it with one. Here's what I have to choose from in my collection:

Stalkers - Currently my control driver. Good jack of all trades, but excel at little besides ~325-350' tunnel shots. They feel a little slower than I want, though I find them pretty nice in most other respects. I'd like a touch more speed and HSS, but I like the minimal fade they have. I find the Z Stalkers beat in a bit quicker than I'd like too...my straight, stable ones start getting high speed turn after a month or two of frequent use.

Teebirds - Used to use it for my control driver and distance driver. Compared to the Stalker it's got more fade but it's not drastic, and it definitely goes further and flies faster. I'm down to 2 Teebirds, a nice and stable 11x champ and a beat star that has some turn. I know from my experience with the star that a TB can easily be beat to the point where it'll hold a turnover or anhyzer, and I'd imagine it can be rolled well but I've never tried. I'm really leaning towards switching Stalkers for TB's.

Leopards - First driver, still like it. Find it very controllable, though it has more left to right movement for me than a Stalker. I have some 150g DX, 172 Pro and 171 Star. I can get them to go pretty far on a hyzer flip, a little further than Stalkers, and I know from experience that lower weight Pro's get flippy quick for easy turnovers, and max weight champs are pretty beefy feeling unless there's a headwind. I think I'd like a little more wind resistance though and a straighter flight at high speeds.

OLF's - I have 3 QOLFs and one SOLF. All of them but one QOLF show very little high speed turn at all. What I like is the disc is comfortable in my hand, I can easily push them past 400' if need be, they're very reliable and predictable, and based on the one I have with some high speed turn it seems once broken in they can be very versatile. What I don't like is they seem to fade really hard when they do come down, more fade than I like to have to compensate for in a control driver. Also, I'd feel kind of weird carrying these and the Orcs, as they're pretty close in speed and potential distance, though the Orc's fly further with less effort and show more high speed turn than my OLF's. I love this mold but it feels like it's too in between control disc and distance disc for me. Maybe if I threw something faster for distance.

Gazelles - I like them, they fly a lot like Stalkers with better glide. Only problem is I've heard the premium plastic ones fly like crap, and while I'm cool with DX in general I know my workhorse control driver is going to have to be used in spots where tree hits are inevitable. These, like the Stalker, feel a touch slower than I want, but aside from that and the plastics issue I really like me some Gazelles. They're nice and controllable, glide well, and can hit a variety of lines (Especially a broken in one). I have a fresh, slightly overstable finishing DX and a flippy, worn in DX.

Would like to hear from players who've found themselves in a similar position. I'm not opposed to trying new molds either. I've considered the Eagle X and PD, though I figured both molds probably fade harder than what I'm looking for. Typing this out and looking at how I feel about each disc, I feel like I should just go back to the TB...

 

[Ryan C]

ESP cyclone.

Does everything you describe. Flies a lot like a Gazelle, but the esp ones don't suck. In fact, they are my main fairway driver and probably overall favorite disc, second only to maybe the buzzz.

 

[Mike C]

It's been almost a year since I've thrown one, so I have no idea how they'd fly for me now. How would you compare an ESP Cyclone to a Z Stalker? I'll keep that mold in mind, I've wanted to try an ESP one and never have.

 

[colombo117]

I am currently on an Eagle kick. I have a Champ EL and a Champ EX in the bag. They perform straight shots, S shots, and hyzers. Good for headwinds and flicks.

I was throwing ESP Cyclones, and I will go back to them this winter because I can't go long with out throwing them. They are controllable and sneaky long.

I change my controllable driver slot every couple months because there are too many good discs to throw! Any one of the discs that you mentioned are good.

 

[Ryan C]

The cyclone has more glide, and similar fade. If you throw a distance driver around 450', I'd expect you to be able to get at least 40-50' more distance out of a cyclone compared to stalker. That's right around my max D range and thats about the difference I see between the two.

The cyclone does have a very mild high speed turn though, but only if you really crank it. I can throw it as hard as I want from only a very mild hyzer and it flips to flat and goes straight for a very long way. But they don't have crazy fade, so you can smooth them out to 350' really easily without them just diving left. I sometimes do this when I don't want to throw a 100% power Buzzz. I actually switched to the cyclone from the Stalker, because the cyclone seemed to be able to do anything my Stalker was doing, only it also had better glide and held better anhyzers when beat.

 

[colombo117]

It's been almost a year since I've thrown one, so I have no idea how they'd fly for me now. How would you compare an ESP Cyclone to a Z Stalker? I'll keep that mold in mind, I've wanted to try an ESP one and never have.

Yeah,the stalker is great at straight and slight hyzer shots.

The Cyclone will do that and more. It will fly an anhyzer without burning out, it will do little S shots and big S shots, and it will fly far or short with great controllability. I think out of the two, the cyclone gives the thrower more options. It has more glide too.

 

[colombo117]

What Ryan C said. :lol:

 

[HeartlessCynic]

I actually switched to the cyclone from the Stalker, because the cyclone seemed to be able to do anything my Stalker was doing, only it also had better glide and held better anhyzers when beat.

This is why I was never impressed by the Stalker.
I've been revisiting the Cyclone recently and was amazed by how easily I could get them out to 350' and even occasionally 380'. All that and they still power down exceptionally well.

Edit: Actually since you're getting better D than me, I'd probably say to stick with the Teebird or maybe try a *EX.

 

[discspeed]

I've been exactly where you are at. I find that the range of the Buzzz overlaps with all of the slower fairway drivers (Cyclone, Gazelle, Stalker, Leopard) and that makes for too many tough decisions I don't want to be faced with. This is why I have settled on the PD. With it's speed I rarely have any overlap with my Buzzz. Another problem though is that I've never been happy with how the discs I like to throw hyzers/straight shots with as turnover discs. I thought I was settled on the P-PD, but I found that it is still a little too fast to hold a long, slow turning, forward dominant anhyzer. I recently have added a River to my bag, and this fills that purpose perfectly. Just as the PD does not do great annies, I wouldn't want to have to rely on my River to hyzer. They are a very nice combo though because they seem to have a very similar range with the PD getting there with speed and the River getting there with glide.

 

[discspeed]

If he throws the Buzzz close to 400', he's not going to have much use for a Cyclone. At that range the Cyclone only does 2 lines (hyzer flip straight or hyzer flip turnover), which are the same as the Buzzz does, and may actually need more height than a Buzzz.

 

[Ryan C]

Did he say that he throws a buzzz close to 400'?

Anyway, he would definitely be crushing distance discs at least 500' if that were the case.

 

[Mike C]

Did he say that he throws a buzzz close to 400'?

Anyway, he would definitely be crushing distance discs at least 500' if that were the case.

I have nose up issues or something. My distance spread between my putter and Distance Driver is pathetic. I haven't figured out why this is yet, but take a look at my max D I've measured with my go-to discs.

Wizard - 380' max 360' consistent
Buzz - 405' max 380' consistent
Stalker - 420' max 400' consistent
Orc - 460' max 430' consistent

I know I play too many putter rounds, but seriously there's less than 100' of distance between a typical max D Wizard throw and max D Orc throw.

 

[Ryan C]

Did he say that he throws a buzzz close to 400'?

Anyway, he would definitely be crushing distance discs at least 500' if that were the case.

I have nose up issues or something. My distance spread between my putter and Distance Driver is pathetic. I haven't figured out why this is yet, but take a look at my max D I've measured with my go-to discs.

Wizard - 380' max 360' consistent
Buzz - 405' max 380' consistent
Stalker - 420' max 400' consistent
Orc - 460' max 430' consistent

I know I play too many putter rounds, but seriously there's less than 100' of distance between a typical max D Wizard throw and max D Orc throw.

Yeah, that's an odd spread. But anyway, I'd really recommend giving the cylcones a go, one way or the other. Regardless, you should find them longer and more versatile than a Stalker.

 

[kern97871]

If you are throwing that far and the teebird is still fading excessively, I'm leaning towards saying you have nose up issues or are torquing the disc towards hyzer. I don't throw the teebird near that far (380' consistently the last time I threw one) but mine don't fade that much at all when I throw them on a line drive. And that was an 11x teebird too.

If it really is a technique flaw, changing discs won't fix (or even help anything). Fix the issue, don't mask it.

 

[josser]

Gazelles - I like them, they fly a lot like Stalkers with better glide. Only problem is I've heard the premium plastic ones fly like crap, and while I'm cool with DX in general I know my workhorse control driver is going to have to be used in spots where tree hits are inevitable. These, like the Stalker, feel a touch slower than I want, but aside from that and the plastics issue I really like me some Gazelles. They're nice and controllable, glide well, and can hit a variety of lines (Especially a broken in one). I have a fresh, slightly overstable finishing DX and a flippy, worn in DX.

The glow CFR Gazelles at DGV are pretty sweet. A few different Gazelle throwers on this board seem to like them and find them barely any more overstable than a new DX one.

Given your potential nose-up issue, PDs would probably do exactly what you want the OLFs to do (they fade forward compared to OLFs harsher fade) and feel quite similar in the hand.

 

[Maks]

use leopards and teebirds!

 

[thatdirtykid]

ESP cyclone is a good chance if you really want premim plastic. I was very impressed. It may not bridge the gap in distance as well as you like. I would also try the XL in ESP (or even Z) it is longer than a cyclone, not quite as good at as many lines, but great for flex shots (which the cyclone isn't) and is decent at anny's, straight with fade, and nuts straight. If you can buy in person, buy one with a higher PLH and one with a lower. Thats what I am running now, they compliment eachother very well without one having to be trashed.

 

[Pwingles]

beat DX TB, and a champ TB will cover everything you need

 

[MasterP97]

Gazelles - I like them, they fly a lot like Stalkers with better glide. Only problem is I've heard the premium plastic ones fly like crap, and while I'm cool with DX in general I know my workhorse control driver is going to have to be used in spots where tree hits are inevitable. These, like the Stalker, feel a touch slower than I want, but aside from that and the plastics issue I really like me some Gazelles. They're nice and controllable, glide well, and can hit a variety of lines (Especially a broken in one). I have a fresh, slightly overstable finishing DX and a flippy, worn in DX.

The glow CFR Gazelles at DGV are pretty sweet. A few different Gazelle throwers on this board seem to like them and find them barely any more overstable than a new DX one.

Given your potential nose-up issue, PDs would probably do exactly what you want the OLFs to do (they fade forward compared to OLFs harsher fade) and feel quite similar in the hand.

I'd have to agree about the CFR Gazelles and there are plenty of them to get even though they're not as common as DX ones. The CFR Gazelles are a tad more stable than a brand new max weight DX Gazelle. I find myself using this when I'm in wooded areas and use the DX where I don't have worry about tree hits as much.

I was going to suggest the ESP Cyclone as well since that wasn't in your original list. It appears that most the posts previous to mine have already covered all the the nuances of the Cyclone. So, my post is a repeat on what they've said and another vote for the disc to try. I have been playing with the Cyclone a little more lately and I have them in D, X, and ESP. I find that the Cyclone is a tick closer to "0" on HSS and a tick more on LSS compared to the DX Gazelle. The comparison of the CFR Gazelle to the ESP Cyclone is negligible in my opinion. Either way, the discs are so similar...just get the premium plastic in each and give them a shot. I love them both.

 

[Mike C]

Of course the day I'm all pumped up to go throw different fairway drivers it rains...

use leopards and teebirds!

Used to, I'm sure I could roll with that pair effectively. Might play a round with my favorite two TB's and Leo's and see what happens.

ESP cyclone is a good chance if you really want premim plastic. I was very impressed. It may not bridge the gap in distance as well as you like. I would also try the XL in ESP (or even Z) it is longer than a cyclone, not quite as good at as many lines, but great for flex shots (which the cyclone isn't) and is decent at anny's, straight with fade, and nuts straight. If you can buy in person, buy one with a higher PLH and one with a lower. Thats what I am running now, they compliment eachother very well without one having to be trashed.

I tried an XL once, it was a newish FLX 173 I believe. Not bad, but a bit understable feeling for what I wanted. Traded it off in favor of the TB's I had in my bag at the time. Either way I've got an ESP Cyclone coming in the mail that I'm excited to try out. Based on the thread about them it sounds like something I could end up really liking.

If it really is a technique flaw, changing discs won't fix (or even help anything). Fix the issue, don't mask it.

I agree 100%, I am going to work on this. I made a thread in the technique section asking for tips and I'm re-reading all the instructional articles. But I feel I do know enough about my discs and my form flaws to know when it me and when it's the disc.

Something else I just thought of is the Vibram Ascent. I'd like to give that disc a shot too and see how it compares to what I already am familiar with.