[Question] Disc Usage Database

[AriusAneid]

Title might be a bit misleading, but not sure what to call it. I have a lot to try and explain, so bear with me please, and thank you!

A little background to begin with, I have been playing for 5 years, but not at a very competitive level. I started out using a Starfire driver, and over the years followed the progression to faster discs with the same turn and fade (Starfire->Wraith->Destroyer->Boss). Going this route, I've learned how to throw many of these, allowing for nice long S-curves. The thing that I've noticed while now playing with more competitive players, and realizing how limited my disc bag is, is that you can't just compare discs by their flight stats or the offered flight path charts that the various companies put out.

The biggest thing I've noticed is that there are many more shots needed than just going down as far as possible, or allowing the disc to follow it's normal flight path. This may seem basic to a lot of players, but it was a realization for me. It's actually allowed me to utilize my Boss for better effect in having in turn sharper. But in looking at stats, the difference between a Boss and a Destroyer aren't that different, but what you use them for is very different from what I've been seeing and hearing from more advanced player. These are the interactions in comparing discs that I am very interested in.

I am wondering if anyone knows of any kind of database that touches on these types of specific uses or variations for discs, outside the normal stat differences. Basically, the more difficult to determine changes that occur between discs. Because to me, a disc that has a Speed 10, Glide 2, Turn -3, Fade 2 means a very small change compared to one with similar stats but a -2 turn instead of -3. To me, this just means that I don't need to tilt the disc as much, but I feel like it many cases it is more than just that. As well, I am looking for the type of things that would answer the question, "I need to make "this" specific shot, so my first thought is to reach for "X" disc, not because it has these stats, but because this is how it reacts."

I am guessing there is nothing like this, but I feel like this would be a valuable tool when looking for new discs (especially on a budget where you can't just buy many discs to try out). A way to get a feel for a disc without having to throw it, if you will. Does anyone know anything like this?

If nothing exists, I am looking to create one. Of course, this would be a collaborative effort that would eventually turn into as inclusive a list as humanly possible. It would be created by answering survey for discs, or getting personal accounts and comparing common interactions with the disc for a "most common" result. Meaning person X and Y say it is best used on sharp hyzers, while person Z says it is impossible to throw on a hyzer. It would be listed as a disc commonly used for sharp hyzers. It is a looooot of work, but if there is interest, I would love to try and create something like this, if it doesn't already exist.

Thoughts? Thanks for reading.

 

[elmexdela]

umm tldr most of it

do you mean this

http://www.mvpdiscsports.com/wp-content/gallery/flight-charts/mvp-flight-chart-tensor-tangent.jpg

 

[tbird888]

The thing about flight numbers is that they only give an idea of what a disc can do. Sure a disc may have a fade of 2, but it may not initiate until the disc is out of forward momentum. Another fade of 2 might start fading while the disc still has forward momentum. This is similar for turn as well.

What really screws with this is molding inconsistencies. A Destroyer with a really high PLH will fly different from one with a lower PLH. Also, as you season a disc it will also change differently.

As for what disc excels at what kind of throw, that's purely subjective. I use TeeBirds for thumbers because I want tight, precise flights from that shots. Others use Firebirds because they want a wide, sweeping roll and major distance.

TL;DR...you're just going to have to experiment, find what you like, and look for backups as close to yours as possible.

 

[hugheshilton]

As tbird says, the list of variables even for a single disc is so large that this sort of project is like writing a computer program that wins at chess. I mean, objectively a single disc is affected by mold inconsistencies, plastic type, weight, and the type and amount of wear on it. That doesn't even begin to address inconsistencies in how a player throws the disc like speed, spin, nose angle, OAT, etc. I would say to become a better player, limit the number of molds/models in your bag and try to really work on your own personal consistency so you know what your own discs do in any given situation when you throw them in different ways. Some sort of database tool really is never going to give you this information.

 

[asc349]

The less discs you carry the more you will find out what they can do in various situations. Not by the flight numbers, designed or intended use, but how you can manipulate the disc to do what you need. I have found this very useful in improving my game by focusing on the shot and not the disc that 'should' do what I need, but how I can make the disc I have do what I need. All you really need is a driver, mid, and putter. You might be surprised at what you can achieve with so little and how much better you score. When you know each disc so well it can bring a lot of confidence.

Only an opinion, throw what works for you.

 

[JedV]

A disc can be thrown countless different ways, and result in just as many flight paths.

Good luck with all the variables!

I agree with asc349's post.

 

[scarpfish]

The biggest thing I've noticed is that there are many more shots needed than just going down as far as possible, or allowing the disc to follow it's normal flight path. This may seem basic to a lot of players, but it was a realization for me. It's actually allowed me to utilize my Boss for better effect in having in turn sharper. But in looking at stats, the difference between a Boss and a Destroyer aren't that different, but what you use them for is very different from what I've been seeing and hearing from more advanced player. These are the interactions in comparing discs that I am very interested in.

What more advanced players know that you're not making a realization with is that its less about the arrows and more about the archer.

I am wondering if anyone knows of any kind of database that touches on these types of specific uses or variations for discs, outside the normal stat differences.

~ yada...yada...yada... ~

I am guessing there is nothing like this, but I feel like this would be a valuable tool when looking for new discs (especially on a budget where you can't just buy many discs to try out). A way to get a feel for a disc without having to throw it, if you will. Does anyone know anything like this?

If nothing exists, I am looking to create one. Of course, this would be a collaborative effort that would eventually turn into as inclusive a list as humanly possible. It would be created by answering survey for discs, or getting personal accounts and comparing common interactions with the disc for a "most common" result.

In other words, you're looking to make something that is overwrought, functionally complicated, and despite that probably missing variables you've not considered, therefore not all that useful.

I'm sure there's perhaps (in some alternate dimension) that you could take all of the needed information and quantify it, and present it in some fashion that might make sense, but in doing so you're just sucking the fun out of the game, and you're gonna end up like this guy --> :wall:.

Buy some discs, find a few that work for you, and learn to master them. You'll get a lot better doing that than trying to apply sabermetrics to disc selection.

 

[slowplastic]

A really big problem also is that slight changes in nose angle and how clean people throw really affects disc flight. To a beginner a Roc is a straight to fade disc, overstable, and slow-ish. To a good player it's dead straight. To an advanced player it can be overpowered in a very controlled manner, and it can absorb all their power. To an intermediate powered player with unclean form it can be touchy.

It's better to understand guidelines, like how turn helps certain flight paths or makes others unpredictable, and how a little bit of fade may help anhyzers flatten out or that stability will keep them in the air. The concepts to understand ratings (how they relate to different flight paths) are complicated, but a lot more manageable to teach. A database of flight characteristics for discs where everyone has different skill levels and technique is not an easy task, and the people who are good enough to see the slight variations in discs (ie. more variation between slight disc change rather than throw-to-throw issues) are probably good enough to understand and adjust themselves.

 

[bcr123psu]

If you want the most inclusive list available, start with Disc Golf Sweden and build it out from there:

http://discgolfsweden.se/english/discar/discar.aspx

 

[ZAMson]

It can be done with code, across different skill levels and throwing styles. My collaborator for the logic has since passed away, and only the two of us knew the details. So it may take some time, but I want to flesh out that project. It'd be a real shame if it never came to light.

 

[Darkgreen]

What really screws with this is molding inconsistencies. A Destroyer with a really high PLH will fly different from one with a lower PLH. Also, as you season a disc it will also change differently.

I've been thinking for some time now it would be helpful to have PLH be something that was measured when comparing discs of the same mold. As has been mentioned in this thread, PLH isn't the be all end all for disc stability and how it will fly, but it certainly is a big clue when picking out a new disc. I like to compare the PLH of discs of that I have to new discs of the same mold, but that isn't always an option

 

[AriusAneid]

Well, I guess there goes that idea. I had already figured there would be a lot of variables and had already determined ways to organize and determine how the information would be organized and determined. I guess, for me, when I see rating numbers that helps me determine how to tilt my wrist when I release it, but I feel like there should be a lot more than that to figuring out what discs work best in situations vs others. Or what throws a disc will respond better to. But maybe I'm just assuming too much of the disc. But thanks for all the input, I still learned something I think!

 

[JedV]

You could certainly track your own results and see where it goes. It's one of those situations where the results are not easily transferable to other players.

In my opinion, nothing beats going to a course and forcing yourself to play one disc rounds. Discs are far more versatile than one would assume. For example, knowing how much an overstable disc flexes out of an anhyzer can open all kinds of doors.

 

[Vorpaljesus]

Typically reading the threads on this site had given me a really good idea of how discs fly in different plastics, different plhs, runs, power levels etc. this kind of is what you're looking for.