Discmania to partner with Yikun and Latitude 64

[Hyzflip10]

Sounds way too complicated than it needs to be.

 

[JTacoma03]

I don't think you're necessarily wrong about expanding distribution, but if it is about not shipping overseas as much, does that mean Evolution is going to be primarily a European brand that will be harder to find in the US? That the Original brand will become more US-centric and not found as much in Europe?

I don't think there will be any cross-pollination between the Discmania brands and their distinct molding partners. Latitude won't be molding DDXs and P2s in Sweden, and Innova won't be molding Links and Instincts in California.

Well we do have a precedent already in place since the same manufacturer already has a similar deal with DD, even the delivery addresses are pretty similar, relatively speaking.

There's a chance it makes BOTH brands easier to get in the US if it reduces their shipping costs or can figure a more efficient system at scale.

Thanks Jamie.

Was that you on the Las Vegas course overview? Good work.

That was Scott Merritt on the mic, the assistant TD of the LVC and a pretty good player himself. I'm not sure who produced the video, probably a local or tourney staff member with a drone?

I liked the video as well, pretty cool that CCDG did their version of it for WTO in the same week.

Just a stray observation—lots of interesting parallels here with the automotive industry, which is full of these kinds of overlapping partnerships. Like how Toyota worked with Subaru on the 86/BRZ, and with BMW on the new Supra, and used to make Corolla variants for General Motors (late '80s Chevy Nova, Geo/Chevy Prizm, Pontiac Vibe).

Same for imported Guitars. This is a far simpler arrangement here in disc golf than how that industry has evolved.

It's a sign of growth, way of the world.

 

[slowplastic]

Same for imported Guitars. This is a far simpler arrangement here in disc golf than how that industry has evolved.

Oh yeah. Especially when a MIM Strat from a distance can look almost the same as a CIJ or USA one. One is $200 and one is close to $2000. And then you have to have a certain skill to really tell the difference. And then since they're wood and all start from a unique piece, you can luck into one for less than a grand that is fantastic if you're really picky.

Plus all the underlying stuff like the electronics and hardware that puts it all together is slightly different, without much labeling unless you know what to look for.

Or unless you have the time and experience develop the ear and feel and just trust yourself for what sounds and plays good, you can find something that isn't reflected in the price correctly.

Disc golf...discs are $8-20 plastic circles and beat in and fly different.

 

[JTacoma03]

Oh yeah. Especially when a MIM Strat from a distance can look almost the same as a CIJ or USA one. One is $200 and one is close to $2000. And then you have to have a certain skill to really tell the difference. And then since they're wood and all start from a unique piece, you can luck into one for less than a grand that is fantastic if you're really picky.

Plus all the underlying stuff like the electronics and hardware that puts it all together is slightly different, without much labeling unless you know what to look for.

Or unless you have the time and experience develop the ear and feel and just trust yourself for what sounds and plays good, you can find something that isn't reflected in the price correctly.

Disc golf...discs are $8-20 plastic circles and beat in and fly different.

Strats are like Firebirds, the hardcore nerds all have different OOP favorites, and they all go for way above MSRP on the secondary market to other people who care just as much...while the rest of us scratch our heads.

 

[slowplastic]

Strats are like Firebirds, the hardcore nerds all have different OOP favorites, and they all go for way above MSRP on the secondary market to other people who care just as much...while the rest of us scratch our heads.

That's a good comparison. Strats were built to be as efficiently made as possible...neck, body and electronics attached to pickguard all separate, then bolt it together and it's a guitar. Just lucky that they ended up sounding awesome. Well except for the bridge position.

Firebirds are meant to be beefy. They just go left and ignore wind.

If you don't care that much any will do. If you care a ton then you seek out the most minute differences.

On one end I want run of the mill champ Firebirds with some dome so I can actually throw and manipulate them a little...makes it easy. On the other end...well I'd seek out the most specific of nuances on a guitar.

 

[Moose33]

Strats are like Firebirds, the hardcore nerds all have different OOP favorites, and they all go for way above MSRP on the secondary market to other people who care just as much...while the rest of us scratch our heads.

I am one of those nerds with both Strats and Firebirds... though I don't shell out the cash for them. If you are careful and know what you are looking for, you can find good of both cheaper than the crazy aftermarket prices.

 

[gogo]

Since Lat64, dynamic discs and Westside are the trilogy, will discmania, Innova, lat64 and yikun be called the quartet?

 

[brutalbrutus]

 

[Brodysseus]

Since Lat64, dynamic discs and Westside are the trilogy, will discmania, Innova, lat64 and yikun be called the quartet?

I like where your head is at but I think they should be called the barber shop. Little more differentiation.

 

[Jenga54]

Since Lat64, dynamic discs and Westside are the trilogy, will discmania, Innova, lat64 and yikun be called the quartet?

What about Millenium, Hyzerbomb, Infinite, maybe others? Innova manufactures discs for a lot of companies.

It's time to start seeing the difference between a disc golf company and a manufacturer of discs. DiscMania is doing awesome here.

To keep it simple for the lay people, they've separated the discs into distinct lines so you know which manufacturer your Discmania disc came from.

 

[eegor]

I sort of agree with both of you. The plastic quality in terms of taking a beating is top notch for sure. What I have noticed (career Destroyer thrower) is that the high speed distance drivers I've tried from LAT (BallistaPro/Giant) both had extremely fast cycle times. They went from pretty stable to pretty damn flippy within maybe a month of playing. I was playing with a sponsored pro the other day and when he was shopping sponsors over the off season he told me that he had a Trilogy offer, but too many of his pro peers he talked to told him that the discs "beat up to fast". That was my experience exactly, but with distance drivers. I have an old school pre emac Truth and Westside Sampo that have held their integrity wonderfully for a very long time. It may be more of the tooling on distance drivers than that plastic. To each their own, but I have certainly heard the "they beat up too quick" trope from a lot of high arm speed guys in reference to Trilogy plastic. That does not necessarily reference durability but flight integrity, and maybe that can be independent? I don't know. Given this pro gets his disc at no cost it was not about that, but he said as much as he throws a disc he was worried about having to cycle out drivers way too frequently and that could hurt consistency. Take it as you will, he chose another company. Plenty of elite talent throwing Trilogy stuff.

Being an older player (58), I don't throw high speed discs unless I'm throwing into a strong Texas wind. The high speed "issues" are not an issue for me. As for the drivers I use, such as a Striker vs a Valkyrie, I don't see any difference in wear at all in opto/champion or GL/Star. Of course I'm not a pro, I'm just a guy that actually buys discs. I've always liked Lat64 as much as Innova. I throw both of their molds regularly.

BTW, I buy those beat Giants, Halos and such for forehands. When they're too flippy for you, they're just right for me.

 

[rhatton1]

Chuck and Flick touched on it in distribution, but whilst shipping cost is a factor shipping time and consistency of delivery is huge and I would expect to be one of the largest factors in the decision.

Here's a likely scenario:

In December Discmanias sales reps had gone into Budget/Intersport etc and sold them the new range of Discmania discs, or even a top up of their old range, stock levels in the warehouse won't be enough to cover.

Order placed in January for a new line of X discs from Innova for delivery to Europe.

At some point in the next month?,2,?, 3 months? that order is produced. (Do Innova prioritise a Discmania own discs order over their run of Innova discs to supply Walmart? I would expect Discmania orders to be pushed lower than core multiple retailer supply)

You then have to load up the container and ship it overseas and get through customs both ends. Best case this takes about a month, worst case for anyone that has been involved in international shipping can tell you, it's how long is that particular piece of string.

Sometime in March/April/May or even longer Discmania is actually able to fulfill the order they received way back in December.

Now imagine the same order was put through in May and the discs weren't received till after the summer months. In Scandinavia especially where I assume the vast majority of play is between March- October they've just lost nearly an entire years sales because of a supply chain logistics problem. they've not been able to react to business quickly.

One answer is for Discmania to overorder and sit on stock but then all profits are stuck in said stock.

Now with Latitude manufacturing 10 hours by road away that headache goes away. Shipping time is way down and Discmania can order regularly and in smaller quantities. Discmania are more likely then to be pushing their Evo plastics to the multiple retailers, who need consistency of supply whilst still importing Innova Discmania for individuals and pro shops who are more able/willing to wait.


Yikun is interesting as the new cross Russia rail service has reduced shipping times (currently around 35 days to that area of Scandinavia) to Europe by about half and cost increase per disc would be marginal. You also miss out on around a week either end of the shipping being lost to sitting in forwarder warehouses (more of an issue with LCL rather than full container load shipments) With these reduced potential shipment times and a cheaper plastic for the mass markets this will make a really good offering.

It's a very smart move for Discmania, for an individual player it's a bit underwhelming after all the hype.

One thing that does really intrigue me is the relationship between Innova and Innova Europe(Spin 18/Discmania) going forward. I'd be very concerned if my major distributor in a region had found other avenues of supply. Does he lose his focus on my business as a result? If his sales staff have the opportunity to put in Discmania EVO line into Budget Sport or Innova Discs which comes out of the sales bag first? (I've had this happen multiple times in other wholesale to retail industries and the answer is always yes and is eventually the kiss of death for the distribution agreement.)

 

[SD86]

And is cereal technically soup?

Cereal is not. Cereal in milk? Debatable. opcorn:

 

[SD86]

Innova is not teaming up with Lat 64.

Discmania is a customer of Innova. Innova makes a product for them.

I don't get why this is so confusing for people.

I "niced" your post to get you past 666 of them... :hfive:

 

[SD86]

The bolded part is the important bit. Your statement is correct, but in the business world you cannot transfer cash from one business that you own to another at will (an S-corp might work different).

Yep. Those in the Police business would call those cash transfers at will "money laundering".