Vonbeezy1
Banned
This might just be the best response on this thread
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Discraft needs to step their game back up'
- Thread starter Aim For The Chains
- Start date
This might just be the best response on this thread
I was much more gung ho to post in this thread before I saw the lovable, well-respected Discraft pro's post. 
From afar, Discraft does seem to be the odd man out. Innova is certainly responding to the increasingly competitive atmosphere, be it by releasing new molds, new plastics, or new ideas. Even if they all don't make a splash, like the Atlas, the perception is that they're still developing and progressing. Discraft just seems much sleepier. The marketing point is a salient one.
Tangentially, I often have similar concerns about Vibram. The marketing is definitely there, but they have released molds at an incredibly slow pace. They seem to be building their brand through other means: tournament sponsorships, Birdie Bashes, advertising, etc. This builds their notoriety, but in the end I think they have a lot less to offer the casual player than most all of the other emerging companies owing to their scant lineup and slow pace of addition.
From afar, Discraft does seem to be the odd man out. Innova is certainly responding to the increasingly competitive atmosphere, be it by releasing new molds, new plastics, or new ideas. Even if they all don't make a splash, like the Atlas, the perception is that they're still developing and progressing. Discraft just seems much sleepier. The marketing point is a salient one.
Tangentially, I often have similar concerns about Vibram. The marketing is definitely there, but they have released molds at an incredibly slow pace. They seem to be building their brand through other means: tournament sponsorships, Birdie Bashes, advertising, etc. This builds their notoriety, but in the end I think they have a lot less to offer the casual player than most all of the other emerging companies owing to their scant lineup and slow pace of addition.
Hampstead
* Ace Member *
Let's just remember that message board chatter does not equal the real world. I play almost every day on several different courses all around Ohio and beyond and I rarely see MVP, Prodigy, DD or Legacy on the course. Just because they aren't over saturating the market with discs that nobody cares about doesn't mean that Discraft is a dying company.
SteezeOG
Dynamic Discs #1 Fanboi
They can probably stay in business just off Ultrastar and Buzzz sales but that doesn't mean they should. It would be nice to see more out of them but it's up to them how they want to move forward as a company.
Hampstead
* Ace Member *
Haven't they been working on building a new warehouse? I'd imagine that would slow some of the R&D on new products. Also, I believe they have been focusing on the expanding Asian market.
blackcatsmith
Double Eagle Member
My antidotal evidence counters yours. Trilogy, Prodigy, and Legacy are well to very well represented here in Arizona. I don't believe Discraft has fallen off as much as there are others coming up. They are still prevalent here. They are one of two brands(guess the other and win nothing) sold locally. I will say I think Discraft erred when they bet on the people wanting shiny(Titanium). If I remember right(I often don't) Innova's Blizzard plastic came out about the same time.
Alcuin
Eagle Member
I don't think Discraft is dying. But they are not expanding either. I don't think they'd go the way of Lightning, but I can see them holding onto a solid but small share of the market based on a few key molds. They might become a niche company, like Gateway but a bit bigger.
I hear people say they don't see new manufacturers on these boards frequently. I see plenty of MVP, Prodigy, DD, Lat, Westside, and Legacy on the course. Obviously with older players, who started building their bags when Innova and Discraft were king (with Wizards on the side), you're going to see less of the new stuff. But even those players are putting some new molds from the new companies in their bags, just at a slower rate. I built my bag three years ago basically and haven't really changed it. If I'd built it last month, I'm sure it would be more varied.
But newer players are building their bags in a totally different environment. And they're watching youtube videos and reading about new companies on the internet: they're the ones who are buying tons of discs, and they are the ones that are the real target audience here, not guys with stacks of 11x TBs and memories of the glory days of CE and barstamp Buzzzes.
pauldst
Double Eagle Member
How many new molds are needed? Actually, how many molds are needed overall? There has to be a saturation point, even if only short term, in the market. Physically, in practical terms there is a limit, as well; sure there could be almost infinite variation by just adjusting various specs in 0.0001 mm increments , but that is hardly practical.
So, having a Buzzz, how much can you improve it, and how can you do anything similar better? When you are at the top, then what? Like others have said, promotion and such, but in today's world, it seems everybody wants new, and the want it constantly. That is kinda hard to measure up with, and every disc manufacturer is gonna stumble, and maybe fall, on it eventually.... <shrug>
, but that is hardly practical.So, having a Buzzz, how much can you improve it, and how can you do anything similar better? When you are at the top, then what? Like others have said, promotion and such, but in today's world, it seems everybody wants new, and the want it constantly. That is kinda hard to measure up with, and every disc manufacturer is gonna stumble, and maybe fall, on it eventually.... <shrug>
jrawk
* Ace Member *
This again?
Discraft custom stamp support for clubs and tournaments is hands down the best in the business. No fuss ordering and you always get the order early, accurate and damage free. As a TD I love Discrafts business model and will support them from the grass roots level for as long as possible.
Discraft custom stamp support for clubs and tournaments is hands down the best in the business. No fuss ordering and you always get the order early, accurate and damage free. As a TD I love Discrafts business model and will support them from the grass roots level for as long as possible.
They supposedly sell more UltraStars than their entire disc golf line combined.
I'd hate to envision a future where they were out of the disc golf business, but if it ever came to that, they'd do just fine.
This.
But seriously. AIM is just a salty troll. If it's not an MVP circle jerk then it must be going down the tank.
Pretty sure they're building a second factory.
Pretty sure Ultimate is massively more popular than disc golf.
Pretty sure MJ could wipe the floor with AIM with only his "antique comet".
Also Forces, Flicks, Nukes, Predators, Drones, Wasps, Buzzz's, Zones, etc.
Halcón
Free At Last
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2012
- Messages
- 12,038
We need to make this challenge happen.
whentherainscome
* Ace Member *
It's hard to beat a Zone. Everyone knows their mids are phenomenal. I see a lot of Stalkers flying, they're a great all purpose fairway.
IDK what the deal with the Mantis was. I saw a dude throw a great 350' drive that had a little turn and a reliable fade to it (one of the lighter weight Ace Race ones) and then go, "What a piece of crap." I'm not sure how the retooled production runs fly. Seems like a good line shaper in the Saint/Volt range.
Then they have a ton of molds I don't see much, and don't know by reputation (eg, I don't see a lot of Condors, but I know them by reputation!). No one ever says "you should try some slower stuff to match your armspeed, grab yourself a Tracker and a Glide and hit the course." Impact, Xpress, XS - never see those. If I do see someone with a Flash it is always their favorite disc. I should probably find something of theirs I like. Living in MI, a lot of the tourneys around are Discraft Featured Events, which means AM payouts are all Discraft.
Z plastic is still great. It's as durable as anything and maintains the best grip in rain/wet vs opto/proton/Champ.
They do need someone to remind people of these things. I don't think Doss is really the one to do it. I'd like to see some updated instructional videos from him, ala the Mark Ellis and Scott Papa ones. No doubt the Prodigy exodus was a setback for them, and it'll take some time to cultivate some touring talent.
IDK what the deal with the Mantis was. I saw a dude throw a great 350' drive that had a little turn and a reliable fade to it (one of the lighter weight Ace Race ones) and then go, "What a piece of crap." I'm not sure how the retooled production runs fly. Seems like a good line shaper in the Saint/Volt range.
Then they have a ton of molds I don't see much, and don't know by reputation (eg, I don't see a lot of Condors, but I know them by reputation!). No one ever says "you should try some slower stuff to match your armspeed, grab yourself a Tracker and a Glide and hit the course." Impact, Xpress, XS - never see those. If I do see someone with a Flash it is always their favorite disc. I should probably find something of theirs I like. Living in MI, a lot of the tourneys around are Discraft Featured Events, which means AM payouts are all Discraft.
Z plastic is still great. It's as durable as anything and maintains the best grip in rain/wet vs opto/proton/Champ.
They do need someone to remind people of these things. I don't think Doss is really the one to do it. I'd like to see some updated instructional videos from him, ala the Mark Ellis and Scott Papa ones. No doubt the Prodigy exodus was a setback for them, and it'll take some time to cultivate some touring talent.
Yeah, Eric McCabe is nuts too right? You need a mirror bud.
You didn't read the OP very well I would assume either.
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CaptainAnhyzer
* Ace Member *
Not from my 6 years of TD work. Tried DC twice and the stamp image was low quality both times.
Not to mention you guys are comparing little fish in the sea with one of the big sharks.
Almost 40 years of disc sports for DC vs less than 10 with these new/small companies :|
Almost 40 years of disc sports for DC vs less than 10 with these new/small companies :|
I have always liked Z and ESP/FLX with some of my favorite molds ever being DC-- hell I have one of my few aces with a Z Flick so this isn't a hate thread at all lol.
Discraft just doesn't have any rhyme or rhythm IMO.
Discraft just doesn't have any rhyme or rhythm IMO.
The thing is, had DD not gone the manufacturer route and the whole Trilogy thing never started, would EMac be saying that as he might possibly have stayed with Discraft? Emphasis on "might".
But they did..? Lets not live in a fantasy land-- If it was worth it to stay on the Discraft team why wouldn't he no matter what was being offered by anyone else.
I don't think you realize how big latitude 64 has become in such a small amount of time compared to innova and discrafts YEARS AND YEARS of exposure without much competition at all. Before there was no other place to go besides these 2 for the most part and that's not even close to the case anymore.
I don't think you realize how big latitude 64 has become in such a small amount of time compared to innova and discrafts YEARS AND YEARS of exposure without much competition at all. Before there was no other place to go besides these 2 for the most part and that's not even close to the case anymore.
