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First hole length
- Thread starter SonicGuy
- Start date
^Only out of fear of losing it. Got to keep it close enough it's out of reach of thieves. :|
Who is your intended skill level player?
Regardless of what folks claim here, most non-MPO level players will dislike the 400' hole as they can't reach it unless there is a hill, some serious wind, etc. The 300' hole, though, even most intermediate players would have a shot at reaching.
So for this reason, I'd say unless you were gearing this course (or this tee, perhaps) specifically toward top advanced / MPO players I'd lean towards the 300' opening hole vs 400' assuming that the only difference is the distance.
Reniger
* Ace Member *
My favorite local course starts with a 574' hole, fairly open field with tall grass on the right, about 10' tall brush on the left, and a few sparse trees and bushes. Fairway is about 100' open, ending uphill into a basket tucked to the left behind trees:
I love the big start. First thing you've got to do is open up a big air shot and get down enough to make a good hyzer approach (RHBH) through some unfriendly foliage. A misfire can REALLLLY start your day out bad if you end up on the left side brush, trying to get out of the scrum and still having to get back to the right side of the fairway for your approach up the hill.
I would rather have that as my first shot than a 200' pitch 'n putt confidence builder.
Just my 2¢
I love the big start. First thing you've got to do is open up a big air shot and get down enough to make a good hyzer approach (RHBH) through some unfriendly foliage. A misfire can REALLLLY start your day out bad if you end up on the left side brush, trying to get out of the scrum and still having to get back to the right side of the fairway for your approach up the hill.
I would rather have that as my first shot than a 200' pitch 'n putt confidence builder.
Just my 2¢
TYVEK
Bogey Member
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2009
- Messages
- 72
300' field shot. nice and easy to help get the juices flowing.
greg_b_4
Birdie Member
A couple of comments. The course I designed hole 1 is a fairly wide open hole 315 from white, 400 from blue. Lake on the right so if there is a headwind or a grip lock it will be gone. The fairway is flat then 25 in front of the basket starts an upslope with a ditch at the bottom of this upslope. The area in front of the basket also stayed wet so I roped it off as a hazard. This hazard is 10 feet in front of the basket. You can take out something longer to reach the green and hope you carry the hazard but then you have a putt coming back downhill with the hazard waiting if you miss. Or you can take out a throw 275ish and have an easy up and down for par. I think this works really well for an opening hole.
Secondly although it is not an official opening hole I played a tournament last year where my card started on a hole with a double mando 50 ft off the tee but only 4 ft wide...... terrible opening hole!!!!!
Secondly although it is not an official opening hole I played a tournament last year where my card started on a hole with a double mando 50 ft off the tee but only 4 ft wide...... terrible opening hole!!!!!
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pmorgan1214
Eagle Member
Some distance shots with Cincinnati courses on hole 1.
Idlewild- 640 feet
Mt. Airy- 464ft, 489 and 540
AJ Jolly- 475 Feet
Idlewild- 640 feet
Mt. Airy- 464ft, 489 and 540
AJ Jolly- 475 Feet
Our local course has two layouts. One starts out like this:
580', with a 60' drop in elevation. The basket is tucked in the woods with a creek behind it, so there's plenty of challenge, but the tee gives you the chance to air one out. Or a couple. Or a dozen, if time permits. Who doesn't love throwing off a big hill?
The other layout starts out like this:
280' to an "island" green, with a pretty good elevation drop. Another chance to warm up, airing out RHBH hyzers and watching the ace runs---and a chance to start your round in a hole, if you're not careful.
580', with a 60' drop in elevation. The basket is tucked in the woods with a creek behind it, so there's plenty of challenge, but the tee gives you the chance to air one out. Or a couple. Or a dozen, if time permits. Who doesn't love throwing off a big hill?
The other layout starts out like this:
280' to an "island" green, with a pretty good elevation drop. Another chance to warm up, airing out RHBH hyzers and watching the ace runs---and a chance to start your round in a hole, if you're not careful.
mattc
* Ace Member *
For a casual round I much prefer a shorter shot, to get the juices flowing.
However, for tourney golf, I guess it doesn't matter as much, because I will have made more of an attempt at warming up before hand.
But I almost always look at course design from a casual round point of view
However, for tourney golf, I guess it doesn't matter as much, because I will have made more of an attempt at warming up before hand.
But I almost always look at course design from a casual round point of view
Yes...well, someone with exactly my thoughts in starting and finishing holes.
Actually, there are a number of courses within an hour or two of me which utilize power line right-of-ways for part of the course.
*
(Okay, trying to modestly sidestep the fact, but that's a private course that I co-own. We have distinct preferences in starting and finishing holes and, given the liberty of design and suitable land, designed to them.)
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2009
- Messages
- 3,222
Our local course has two layouts. One starts out like this:
580', with a 60' drop in elevation. The basket is tucked in the woods with a creek behind it, so there's plenty of challenge, but the tee gives you the chance to air one out. Or a couple. Or a dozen, if time permits. Who doesn't love throwing off a big hill?
The other layout starts out like this:
280' to an "island" green, with a pretty good elevation drop. Another chance to warm up, airing out RHBH hyzers and watching the ace runs---and a chance to start your round in a hole, if you're not careful.
Those look like two really fun shots, David.
I'm curious what the restrictions are for the power company right of ways. I always thought you couldn't have any permanent fixtures (baskets, tee pads, etc.) in them and could just have fairways cross over them. It looks like Stoney Hill has both tees and baskets in the right of way. If I remember right you guys use carpet tees; so that shouldn't be an issue. Would they have allowed you to put in a concrete tee or a terrace to level a tee on a hillside? Is the basket in the second pic a portable? Would a permanent basket be ok?
I can only speak for our easement, and some of it is gray area. It mostly comes down to their being able to service the powerlines.
We can't grade the ground where they can't get vehicles in, though our grading, if anything, makes it easier for them. We can put up a fence, as long as they have access through it. We can pave a driveway, so I imagine we could make concrete tees. We can't build a pond, or a building. They've never said anything about our railroad-tie-island-green.
Courses that come to mind, using right of ways, include Renaissance, Patriots Park (Augusta, GA), Pipeline and Grand Central Station (Upstate S.C.). All have concrete tees, fixed signs, permanent baskets, and in some cases, bridges, in the right-of-way.
....the biggest downside is that the power companies may come through and do maintenance, such as major trimming, without regard to the course.
---Anyway, back to the topic, my ideal is for an opening hole to ease you into the course. Not as an easy, predictable, filler hole, but as a good hole that's somewhat-forgiving. And one that invites multiple warm-up shots.
My ideal for a finishing hole is one in which a 2 or 3 stroke lead is not safe.
Of course, disc golf designers must deal with the land they're given, usually including a parking area that restricts where they can start and finish. The starting hole is not a real big deal but, given the choice, this is what I prefer.
My ideal for a finishing hole is one in which a 2 or 3 stroke lead is not safe.
Of course, disc golf designers must deal with the land they're given, usually including a parking area that restricts where they can start and finish. The starting hole is not a real big deal but, given the choice, this is what I prefer.
Stony Creek - Buckhorn North Hole #1 762 ft with a tunnel shot to the green, Hole #2 933 ft. One of the toughest openings I have played. I don't care where a course presents a challenge.
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2009
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- 3,222
^I appreciate the info, David. My assumptions were a bit off. It seems that a power line easement would be perfect to add variety to a densely wooded property (and you don't have to do any brush clearing). Apologies for the thread drift.
As far as the length of the first hole, I am fine with either long or short. Biggest contributing factors to first hole length would be intended skill level, elevation gain/loss, where on the spectrum from fun to frustration do you want the playing experience, and (probably most importantly) creating the best hole that the land allows. Also, a long first hole could be low pressure if it is a par 4 that has a large, forgiving landing zone for the first throw.
My biggest first hole pet peeve would be significant water or ob on the first hole. I also tend to prefer courses more toward the fun side of the spectrum, though.
As far as the length of the first hole, I am fine with either long or short. Biggest contributing factors to first hole length would be intended skill level, elevation gain/loss, where on the spectrum from fun to frustration do you want the playing experience, and (probably most importantly) creating the best hole that the land allows. Also, a long first hole could be low pressure if it is a par 4 that has a large, forgiving landing zone for the first throw.
My biggest first hole pet peeve would be significant water or ob on the first hole. I also tend to prefer courses more toward the fun side of the spectrum, though.
I agree, especially on the water.
Our water-carry holes are late on the course (so you have to face them at your tiredest), and in tournaments with a shotgun start, if at all possible, we try not to start any cards on them.
If I was designing a course for a park I'd opt for the 1st hole to be fairly open b/c it's nice to roll out of a car and warm up on an open hole before you start trying to thread needles, it's customary in my area to throw 2 off the first tee and if I'm gonna have an open hole anyway it might as well be hole 1 so if some guy is in bag emptying mode you can spot them easily and skip over to the back 9 or something.
300' or 400' doesn't really matter outside of tourneys, which are a fraction of a park course's usage. 300' is a nice par 3 distance for most, 400' can get a little NAGSy for lesser players depending on the elevation change.
300' or 400' doesn't really matter outside of tourneys, which are a fraction of a park course's usage. 300' is a nice par 3 distance for most, 400' can get a little NAGSy for lesser players depending on the elevation change.
