Foot Fault 2019

[Emoney]

You can't just aver that reason, logic, and understanding basic anatomy are on your side. You have to use reason to prove the logic after educating everyone about basic human anatomy referencing acknowledged experts.

Start with quoting a kinesiologist who can explain why - counterintuitively - standing still produces more injuries than moving.

Lol no stevie. Common knowledge bud

 

[BrotherDave]

The reduced distance of the throw may be just a side effect. The problem being addressed is that step putt and jump putt violations are difficult to see in real time.

Which is only a problem if step and jump putts are a problem to begin with. Are they? A lot of the anti-jump putt people say that S&D putts are better/more accurate anyway.

 

[curmudgeonDwindle]

I have nothing against jump putting but I find it weird that last year when there was discussions about making the baskets smaller in order to make putting more difficult, there wasn't any discussion (or at least I didn't see it) about making the circle bigger for pros. Would be much more cheaper and easier, and would similarly emphasise the need for accurate upshot.

I concur, certainly on an experimental or discretionary basis.
Moreover, it may not be just about indiscriminately making the circle larger, but having non-circular shapes to greens outside the 10-meter circle, which as you say, reward accurate play.

Think about pins near an OB water feature where players commonly 'lag' a drive to avoid trouble, for example. A 'green' could be enlarged to include an area near the green where lies are common (a 'bail-out', say #5 at the USDGC w/ the forced carry over water). Stats freaks could help a lot determining some of these areas. Then a conservative play would be rewarded less than a shot which is riskier, assuming either the conservative play or the risky shot are well executed. Then either play is rewarded more on its merit. The idea is to create more of a 'reward gradient' instead of a 'reward binary'.

I believe this idea has great potential.

 

[Steve West]

Which is only a problem if step and jump putts are a problem to begin with. Are they? A lot of the anti-jump putt people say that S&D putts are better/more accurate anyway.

I think the only real problem is that it is hard to see if they are legal or not. There shouldn't be a question of whether or not we are all playing by the same rules.

Which could be fixed either by making them more obviously illegal, or making them obviously legal.

 

[BrotherDave]

I think the only real problem is that it is hard to see if they are legal or not. There shouldn't be a question of whether or not we are all playing by the same rules.

Which could be fixed either by making them more obviously illegal, or making them obviously legal.

But again, there are lots of situations where it's hard to see if they are legal or not. Only the jump-putts raise ire.

 

[robdeforge]

I'm not arguing that though, I agree. What you say would be true IF this was the only bang-bang/ambiguous facet of the game that routinely comes into being. It isn't by a long shot. There are several grey areas that are routinely abused that no one really cares about. Who is really farthest out? Is your off-foot no closer to the target than your lie when you straddle putt/do a patent pending? Did you throw within the time limit? Did you take you take your lie in that bush with minimal moving of that bush? Did you take more than a meter from that OB line you landed near? Did your putter come to rest fully before you snatched it out on that tap-in? Are all your discs legal weight? Etc. There are tons of grey areas that nobody really gets too argumentative about that can unfairly give a player a slight advantage but for some reason jumpers get people's knickers in a twist. We wouldn't be arguing about this incessantly if people cared about jumpers as little as they care about 1 meter OB relief.

very nice false equivalence!

 

[BrotherDave]

very nice false equivalence!

No it isn't. The reasoning for disliking jump-putts is that it's hard to tell if they're done legally. It's hard to tell if someone is taking a legal stance, period. It's hard to tell for the same reasons, i.e. the rules regarding the lie are too vague. Caring about jump-putts but not other stance violations is inconsistent. Or do you think that making sure everyone's foot is touching an imaginary 20x30cm box before disc's release is any less hard to judge than jump-putts? opcorn:

 

[JC17393]

No it isn't. The reasoning for disliking jump-putts is that it's hard to tell if they're done legally. It's hard to tell if someone is taking a legal stance, period. It's hard to tell for the same reasons, i.e. the rules regarding the lie are too vague. Caring about jump-putts but not other stance violations is inconsistent. Or do you think that making sure everyone's foot is touching an imaginary 20x30cm box before disc's release is any less hard to judge than jump-putts? opcorn:

Not sure if you are serious or just playing devils advocate, but in probably 99% of cases, verifying that a player's foot is touching the "box" on a typical throw is far easier than judging whether a player's foot is off the ground a fraction of an inch at release on a jump putt. Mainly because other than in the case of a jump/step putt, one's foot is in contact with the lie before and after the release of the disc. If it's there before and there after, hard to say it wasn't there at the instant the disc was released.

The rules really aren't vague at all. Judgement in the moment can be vague depending on a lot of variables (obstructed views due to long grass or brush, the speed of the player's movements, etc), but that's not something that can necessarily be addressed by the language of the rules.

 

[robdeforge]

There are several grey areas that are routinely abused that no one really cares about.

1) Who is really farthest out?

2) Is your off-foot no closer to the target than your lie when you straddle putt/do a patent pending?

3) Did you throw within the time limit?

4) Did you take you take your lie in that bush with minimal moving of that bush?

5) Did you take more than a meter from that OB line you landed near?

6) Did your putter come to rest fully before you snatched it out on that tap-in?

7) Are all your discs legal weight?

if you can't tell that the majority of those are not good comparisons, I don't know how to help you. good luck

 

[_MTL_]

S&D people are the flat earthers of disc golf.

It's not happening. So drop it.

 

[PoorPutter]

S&D people are the flat earthers of disc golf.

It's not happening. So drop it.

Despite the 4 "Niced" (so far), comparing S&D to Flat Earth is ridiculously stupid.

 

[_MTL_]

Despite the 4 "Niced" (so far), comparing S&D to Flat Earth is ridiculously stupid.

You are right. Probably not fair to the flat earthers to loop them into that group of people.

 

[Suspect]

Sorry for the noob question....but what is S&D Putts?

 

[JC17393]

Sorry for the noob question....but what is S&D Putts?

For the purposes of this discussion, S&D means Stand and Deliver. As in, no run up into the throw.

 

[_MTL_]

Sorry for the noob question....but what is S&D Putts?

The reason that it's always brought up in this discussion is that people have this ridiculous idea that because foot faults happen, there should be no run up allowed after the tee shot.

 

[Suspect]

I dont run up usually on any other shot but the tee. I might step up for an approach. Jump Putts seem to be non beneficial to me. I do hold my ankles as I putt and hope it's not too awful of a putt.

 

[Casey 1988]

I dont run up usually on any other shot but the tee. I might step up for an approach. Jump Putts seem to be non beneficial to me. I do hold my ankles as I putt and hope it's not too awful of a putt.

I do a jump up and down but that is more to get the disc in more of an arc if I am missing low. I never do full on jump putts, I have been called for them before in tournaments even though it is not the definition of a falling over the marker putt.

 

[Steve West]

I do a jump up and down but that is more to get the disc in more of an arc if I am missing low. I never do full on jump putts, I have been called for them before in tournaments even though it is not the definition of a falling over the marker putt.

Do you release the disc while in the air?

 

[Dcinmd]

The reason that it's always brought up in this discussion is that people have this ridiculous idea that because foot faults happen, there should be no run up allowed after the tee shot.

Hell its not only run ups, you can't stand and follow through.

 

[Casey 1988]

Do you release the disc while in the air?

Yeah but that should not count, the rules state that a player who is over the line when releasing disc within 10 meters is at fault also The disc came to rest when I was on really moving. They called it from a different card before disc ever came to rest at a PDGA tournament back in 2008. I do not need it much anymore, I use more a back foot push off but front foot still on the ground, that is not illegal.