Form check after some more work

[clean-slate]

Hey y'all,

I am working on trying to completely revamp my backhand form.

As per seabas22's suggestions, I switched to a pendulum/loose arm swing style. I feel like I have more considerably more power than before and was able to throw a fairly easy 360, maybe a little bit more on turnover lines.

The pendulum feels way more natural and effortless and gives me more energy transfer from my body to arm to disc.I feel like there's a bit less rounding. However, I know I'm missing out on a lot of power.

But I still feel like im not doing enough of a lateral move/brace in the throw. I feel like I'm getting an inertia effect that helps propel the disc, but I feel like I'm twisting my hips/not bracing into the throw a bit. I'm struggling to get more lat engagement and really using my body weight to boom the pendulum forward rather than hip twist (bad.)



I currently throw about 360 with fairway driver, 320 ish with mids, 300 with putter.

Here's my new form with the pendulum motion:

https://youtu.be/3FkGjrFwnGk

The first two were with a putter.

This is my old form (ew):


https://youtu.be/i5rxiAZ1ikQ

 

[clean-slate]

Hey y'all,

I am working on trying to completely revamp my backhand form.

As per seabas22's suggestions, I switched to a pendulum/loose arm swing style. I feel like I have more considerably more power than before and was able to throw a fairly easy 360, maybe a little bit more on turnover lines.

The pendulum feels way more natural and effortless and gives me more energy transfer from my body to arm to disc.I feel like there's a bit less rounding. However, I know I'm missing out on a lot of power.

But I still feel like im not doing enough of a lateral move/brace in the throw. I feel like I'm getting an inertia effect that helps propel the disc, but I feel like I'm twisting my hips/not bracing into the throw a bit. I'm struggling to get more lat engagement and really using my body weight to boom the pendulum forward rather than hip twist (bad.)



I currently throw about 360 with fairway driver, 320 ish with mids, 300 with putter.

Here's my new form with the pendulum motion:

https://youtu.be/3FkGjrFwnGk

The first two were with a putter.

This is my old form (ew):


https://youtu.be/i5rxiAZ1ikQ

First two throws felt better than third, third one I think I engaged my shoulder too much/didn't plant on front foot enough

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, rounding/hugging, not turning your body back enough. You are pumping and throwing with your shoulders/chest open to target instead of closed.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132910

 

[clean-slate]

Bow n arrow

Yeah, rounding/hugging, not turning your body back enough. You are pumping and throwing with your shoulders/chest open to target instead of closed.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132910

Thanks for the recommendation. That is something I really noticed in the video was that my plant and body was very open.

I worked on bow and arrow drill this morning. I attached a pic of me relaxing into it, butt first. Tried to keep feet a bit more inline.

On my throw, I can see that I'm not fully stretching my posterior oblique sling and getting it stretched into proper door frame position.

However, I did feel more power simply from letting the arm Pendelum go somewhat taut against the force of my body on the backswing and just keeping it fairly loose, but engaging tricep just a bit during the swing acceleratio AFTER the arm starts to return via myostatic reflex .

Is this generally the correct feeling? General arm feeling felt more relaxed and powerful, but the bad part was almost felt like I was "breaking the Pendelum string" with my own body in those throws. Almost like when you swing a weight on a rope and it goes taut but then you wrap it around a tree.

Judging from the other thread, it would seem that I want to maintain that pendelum swing tautness (thru relaxation) until 90 degrees?


I will post another form video attempting better door frame position later today or tomorrow.

 

[clean-slate]

Yeah, rounding/hugging, not turning your body back enough. You are pumping and throwing with your shoulders/chest open to target instead of closed.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132910

Happy thanksgiving!

I went and worked on one leg drill and recorded it here:

https://youtu.be/TkfEFW85tIA

Am I feeling the balance right or am I pumping w/ all shoulder? Because I feel like my shot has a LOT of shoulder in it.


I did a throwing session this morning in the field and was super discouraged because I can't feel the connection between my body and disc. UDisc measured the average of my throws (mostly with fairways) at just over 315 +- 15 feet. I just can't feel like I can get my body to counterweight my arm swing.

I tried doing reciprocating dingle arm here but I cant tell if I'm actually doing it right.

I think I'm throwing with all arm and it's getting me super frustrated.

What drill should I go to work on to just get that fundamental balance/feeling? Hammer drill?

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, your pelvis/butt isn't swiveling on your front leg, so it's all arm. Good starting position, but you need a little pump action on the leg to swivel the pelvis and let the rear heel swivel down onto the ground shifting your CoG back and around a little like taking a walk backwards perpendicular to target. Ewalk and figure 8 should help.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136487
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139973

 

[clean-slate]

Yeah, your pelvis/butt isn't swiveling on your front leg, so it's all arm. Good starting position, but you need a little pump action on the leg to swivel the pelvis and let the rear heel swivel down onto the ground shifting your CoG back and around a little like taking a walk backwards perpendicular to target. Ewalk and figure 8 should help.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136487
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139973

One leg drill with leg pump:
https://youtu.be/ktx8Z1Edc1Q

Felt a little weird, for this particular drill this just practices the initial feeling before loading behind onto rear foot for the backswing right?


Had to adjust balance a bit as you can see in the vid. All weight stayed on front foot

 

[sidewinder22]

Put your rear toes on the ground and walk back toward your rear heel. When you walk back your butt will swivel toward target and open up your backswing giving you a ton space to swing back behind you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IFO7J3AV5Y#t=5m25s

 

[clean-slate]

Put your rear toes on the ground and walk back toward your rear heel. When you walk back your butt will swivel toward target and open up your backswing giving you a ton space to swing back behind you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IFO7J3AV5Y#t=5m25s

Tried the back foot weight transfer and it was really helpful. I went back and recorded a door frame drill:

https://youtu.be/WMLBaSLdsG4

I'm pretty much average height but I have a +2/+3 ape index so I feel like I have to squat into the door frame position a bit more to get a full lat stretch, if that makes any sense . I felt really powerful in this door frame position and felt a pull on my left butt cheek as well as pressure on the inside left foot.

Felt like I got more power being on toes of left foot.
Two questions:
1. Is the door frame position looking okay? I don't have great flexibility but felt a real pull targetward as well as in my lats/glute

2. When I eventually transition to throwing a disc after loading my posterior chain via door frame position, will I feel like I'll fall on my butt? Human body obviously has enough power to resist the pull of the door frame on its own, but the weight of the door frame helps me "trust" the pull and drop of my COG more. Because an actual throw has no heavy weight to pull against, will the throw feel like my butt will fall on the ground?

 

[sidewinder22]

1. I think your stance is staggered too far closed, feet should be much closer inline to each other for this drill. Your rear foot and front shoulder need to create a straight line force thru the body.

2. Hand needs to reachback lower, around navel/belt high, and then your shoulder should drop almost inline to hand as you stride forward. Your hand height limits how much you can drop forward and load back into this drill in the oblique sling plane.
Note the Orange sling line from lead hip to lead shoulder.

3. Walk your rear foot closer to target while holding door frame. Your rear foot is too close to door frame and not really winding up thru the body. Note how my lead shoulder is pulled back behind trail shoulder and lead shoulder basically stacked/loaded back over rear foot. Your lead shoulder is forward of trail shoulder and well forward of rear foot/knee. Chin should be forward of lead shoulder, and chest pointed beyond 180 degrees - note how you can almost see the "L" of legacy discs on my back.
Note the Cyan leverage line from rear foot to rear shoulder.

4. When you release loaded from door frame, your rear foot should be driving thru the release and your whole body should unwind and shoot targetward taking a step forward with rear foot.

 

[clean-slate]

door frame drill 2.0

1. I think your stance is staggered too far closed, feet should be much closer inline to each other for this drill. Your rear foot and front shoulder need to create a straight line force thru the body.

2. Hand needs to reachback lower, around navel/belt high, and then your shoulder should drop almost inline to hand as you stride forward. Your hand height limits how much you can drop forward and load back into this drill in the oblique sling plane.
Note the Orange sling line from lead hip to lead shoulder.

3. Walk your rear foot closer to target while holding door frame. Your rear foot is too close to door frame and not really winding up thru the body. Note how my lead shoulder is pulled back behind trail shoulder and lead shoulder basically stacked/loaded back over rear foot. Your lead shoulder is forward of trail shoulder and well forward of rear foot/knee. Chin should be forward of lead shoulder, and chest pointed beyond 180 degrees - note how you can almost see the "L" of legacy discs on my back.
Note the Cyan leverage line from rear foot to rear shoulder.

4. When you release loaded from door frame, your rear foot should be driving thru the release and your whole body should unwind and shoot targetward taking a step forward with rear foot.

Thanks for graphic, very helpful!

I spent about an hour in my room playing around with trying to get the force vector targetward. Lots of stretching lol.

This was the most recent attempt, pardon the cameo from my cat:

https://youtube.com/shorts/uIsi5bRdPWk?feature=share

How is this looking? In this, I did not try to spin targetward, I just planted and my oblique sling uncoiled and propelled me and my arm. It was kind of insane,

 

[sidewinder22]

Thanks for graphic, very helpful!

I spent about an hour in my room playing around with trying to get the force vector targetward. Lots of stretching lol.

This was the most recent attempt, pardon the cameo from my cat:

https://youtube.com/uIsi5bRdPWk?feature=share

How is this looking? In this, I did not try to spin targetward, I just planted and my oblique sling uncoiled and propelled me and my arm. It was kind of insane,

Lol, the cat. That is some weird video format of youtube I've never seen before, and don't like it.

Your shoulder is way too tight. Need to let go of the shoulder, relax, hang loose, and let everything turn back away while striding forward. You still need to walk your rear foot closer to target while holding on relaxed. Only thing that should be tight is your grip. Your left shoulder should be going closer to target than your right shoulder and head.

 

[clean-slate]

Lol, the cat. That is some weird video format of youtube I've never seen before, and don't like it.

Your shoulder is way too tight. Need to let go of the shoulder, relax, hang loose, and let everything turn back away while striding forward. You still need to walk your rear foot closer to target while holding on relaxed. Only thing that should be tight is your grip. Your left shoulder should be going closer to target than your right shoulder and head.

Yeah, YouTube is doing some annoying "Shorts" format and basically forcing vids shorter than a minute into that format. Guess they're trying to compete w/ tik tok or something idk.

Filmed it again this morning. I rewatched door frame part 2 and noticed thru the diff camera angle that my feet were too inline to the door frame. I adjusted that to help me get better leverage. I moved foot line a few inches behind the door frame, that gave me a bit more range of motion.

I also tried to let go of the shoulder here and relax: the only thing I felt like I was actively doing here was pushing off the inside of my rear foot (my left foot) towards the target to load my sling. The push w/ the rear foot also seemed to get my left shoulder pushed back further behind my right. I'm assuming that this is what you mean by "stride" the rear foot toward target. I could be completely misinterpreting tho lol.

https://youtube.com/shorts/jVxO9kNVVtQ?feature=share

Better?

 

[clean-slate]

Yeah, YouTube is doing some annoying "Shorts" format and basically forcing vids shorter than a minute into that format. Guess they're trying to compete w/ tik tok or something idk.

Filmed it again this morning. I rewatched door frame part 2 and noticed thru the diff camera angle that my feet were too inline to the door frame. I adjusted that to help me get better leverage. I moved foot line a few inches behind the door frame, that gave me a bit more range of motion.

I also tried to let go of the shoulder here and relax: the only thing I felt like I was actively doing here was pushing off the inside of my rear foot (my left foot) towards the target to load my sling. The push w/ the rear foot also seemed to get my left shoulder pushed back further behind my right. I'm assuming that this is what you mean by "stride" the rear foot toward target. I could be completely misinterpreting tho lol.

https://youtube.com/shorts/jVxO9kNVVtQ?feature=share

Better?

Okay, I think I was overthinking what you were saying in regards to walking back rear foot lol. I can see that in your door frame you have at least a foot more distance between your reachback peak and your rear foot.

Is this better?

 

[sidewinder22]

Definitely closer. Your shoulder is still very tight and going very slow into the forward drop from the door frame. Let go of your shoulder and drop into it quicker. Also your head/chin should be more forward looking over your shoulder. If you look back away it gets wonky. The lead shoulder should turn the head back with chin above it.

I don't know what link you are sharing with the "shorts", but it should look like this for normal youtube player...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVxO9kNVVtQ

 

[clean-slate]

DFD v3

Definitely closer. Your shoulder is still very tight and going very slow into the forward drop from the door frame. Let go of your shoulder and drop into it quicker. Also your head/chin should be more forward looking over your shoulder. If you look back away it gets wonky. The lead shoulder should turn the head back with chin above it.

I don't know what link you are sharing with the "shorts", but it should look like this for normal youtube player...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVxO9kNVVtQ

How's this? Hopefully link should be good this time. I shared thru my laptop rather than thru mobile which seems to help.
https://youtu.be/FDUWdLNSRP0

I really tried to let go and just let gravity pull everything. Whereas before it felt like a struggle to get my right shoulder forward of left, this felt pretty effortless. Also felt more balanced in the finish/release. def need to work on trusting the look over shoulder, but felt better.

 

[sidewinder22]

Frame 1. Setup - looks like your rear foot is too far away from door frame, you shouldn't be leaning back to grab the door frame. Rear foot should also likely be turned further back. Need to move your rear foot around, play around with the placement - feel where you get relaxed leverage.

Frame 2. Maxed out - Your front foot should be able to plant flat on the ground, but not much pressure on it. Your chin should be turned forward over right shoulder. Looks like you are trying maintain a flexed rear knee instead of straightening and striding forward and turning further back. Note how your head/shoulders stayed back. Note how my left shoulder is almost over front foot.

Frame 3. Finish - Now how your front foot/leg spun open on the way down and are tilted back in the finish. Note how my whole right side is stacked upright on front foot in the finish.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134167

 

[clean-slate]

dfd

Frame 1. Setup - looks like your rear foot is too far away from door frame, you shouldn't be leaning back to grab the door frame. Rear foot should also likely be turned further back. Need to move your rear foot around, play around with the placement - feel where you get relaxed leverage.

Frame 2. Maxed out - Your front foot should be able to plant flat on the ground, but not much pressure on it. Your chin should be turned forward over right shoulder. Looks like you are trying maintain a flexed rear knee instead of straightening and striding forward and turning further back. Note how your head/shoulders stayed back. Note how my left shoulder is almost over front foot.

Frame 3. Finish - Now how your front foot/leg spun open on the way down and are tilted back in the finish. Note how my whole right side is stacked upright on front foot in the finish.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134167

I think I may have been shooting for a feeling that isn't correct now that I can see this comparison.

1. Just for clarification, I should be able to feel that if the door frame disappeared, I wouldn't fall back onto my butt? My current form is more like falling butt first with my grip supporting most of my body weight (i.e. like if I was grabbing a tree limb and hanging off of it with one foot on ground) I think this is why my front foot is hovering off the ground so much.


2. Should my whole body get slung around forcefully at the release or is it more of a feeling where it feels "natural" to swing rather than my body getting violently uncoiled? (i.e. arm naturally swings from lat stretch and my body/foot gets uncoiled on the follow through.)

The way I'm doing it now, I feel like I'm falling onto the brace and its slinging me around forcefully to where the front foot spins out quickly (i.e. frame 3.) The "spin" should happen in the follow through, correct?

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Should feel like falling butt first, but only like 1-2 inches. You are falling butt first like 6-12 inches and opening up during the fall before planting. You should be able to bounce from the door frame into your heel and door frame pulls you back, you shouldn't be able to settle your weight into heel until releasing.

2. Your torso should unwind/catapult to target on braced front foot/leg. The arm swing momentum pulls the front foot into pivot if there is enough behind it and you are in dynamic balance on it like olympic hammer thrower.