Guy stands in field to try and throw plastic to 400.

[UhhNegative]

I feel like its hard to translate going slowly with a disc inside to actually throwing. But in this video you get to max reachback and then make the forward move with the lower body. Really you want them both happening at kind of the same time. So as you make the forward move with the lower body, the upper body continues to turn back.

So depending on how you look at it, the lower body needs to start the forward move sooner or the backswing needs to happen later. You get to the top and stop and then drag everything forward. But like I said, sometimes it just doesn't really translate to the field anyway.

 

[Parbequeue]

Absolutely. All the timing stuff can't really be worked out too well indoors but my focus was on just the action itself with the lower body. Which I think is close.

 

[Parbequeue]

This thread might be better than any of the DGR threads linked in the sticky. SP goes through pretty much every struggle that all of us have faced. So many gold nuggets in here. Going to go ahead and bump this, hopefully someone else can learn as much as I did reading through this.

I always have SP thread open on my tabs (so much gold) but this one of the last posts is exactly how I'm seeing and feeling my lower body move now.

 

[Parbequeue]

When Shawn says that the pressure stays on the plant leg instep (in his case left leg) during the entire swing , is that the same for the DG swing? When I try it it just feels like all my weight is it on the instep and never leaves -my backswing feels restricted.

 

[Parbequeue]

Finally had a chance to get out and do some field work. I thought it was pretty uneventful but I actually inadvertently learned how to brace again. Guess I've been going over the top for the best part of a year!

I was watching tilted spiral & the move aka quackery, and combined the ice skating with screwing / pressuring my rear foot counter clockwise - and thinking about what Shawn said being on the plant leg the whole time. This feels very in control and almost impossible to go over the top - everything ends up what feels like behind the plant leg.

I think this lil move is what so many of the drills are trying to teach;

Crush the can - I feel like I'm almost squatting on my plant leg I'm so stuck to the ground

B - wipe - the hips feel very swivelly and like big counter weights, clearing out the way working the chain

OLD - I'm finally able to do the whole swing on the front leg and stand there perpetually in balance.


When I do it the old way - its guaranteed over the top, feels unstable and I suddenly realized why I was falling to the right so much, tipping off balance.

It will be almost a year to the day when I first discovered this, I'm not sure how / why I ended up so far away.

Unfortunately it will be another week til I can get out
and try it outside with a disc. But here's the basic action-






The bit where he kind of bows his front leg out - that was something that jumped out at me where it's hard to do going over the top , you're establishing this nice big foundation.

Could be wrong but it def feels familiar, in balance and control.

 

[sidewinder22]

When Shawn says that the pressure stays on the plant leg instep (in his case left leg) during the entire swing , is that the same for the DG swing? When I try it it just feels like all my weight is it on the instep and never leaves -my backswing feels restricted.

"Feels" that way, he also talks about it actually temporarily leaving.

 

[Parbequeue]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mocheez
View Post
But do you want to be leveraging from the ground that late into the plant? I've always felt like the plantar flexion was more geared towards getting the left hip to drop below the right hip and into position to counter the swing.



Making the move before front heel plants/braces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=embl3dPg3PU&t=2m



So this is why toe down (instep plant) is so important, you have to be able to make the move off the rear foot cleanly and with leverage and catch yourself properly - if you don't have the toe ready to start the catch on the plant instep, it's very hard to make the correct move.

Feeling some familiar feelings again, just a casual 11 month detour ��

 

[Parbequeue]

More drills at home! I think I finally understand OLD!

Despite the highly detailed video (just watched again so much gold in there) I never truly understood it.

It teaches how to brace inside your foot and swing entirely on the front leg. Duh! Swing feels like forever and now feels more snappy coming thru my Center.

Think my shoulder could drop a bit tho. I had to switch to the voight air slap cause I swear it was tearing out with a regular grip.

 

[RowingBoats]

Swing feels like forever...

I agree man. Even after the revelation, this is the first thing to go when I try to just 'throw harder'. I really think the OLD is the drill. Yes, you still have to apply a lot of other concepts, but there is no way I have found to have any good results with the OLD without actually kinda getting it.

The drill is like a self-correcting whetstone to sharpen your concepts against, in my opinion.

Love reading this thread sir, I have learned quite a few things from your progress.

 

[Parbequeue]

Glad to hear it! It's been a hell of a journey!

So... is there a correlation between how hard you brace against the rear leg to how fast you can throw that back to the instep of the plant brace? Or is it a matter of how fast you plantar flex and get onto/into the brace? Or both!

It's pretty shocking how hard it is to get your weight shifted / balanced if you go beyond that instep area. I could see why I never got this worked out before with my tippy x step.

 

[UhhNegative]

Glad to hear it! It's been a hell of a journey!

So... is there a correlation between how hard you brace against the rear leg to how fast you can throw that back to the instep of the plant brace? Or is it a matter of how fast you plantar flex and get onto/into the brace? Or both!

It's pretty shocking how hard it is to get your weight shifted / balanced if you go beyond that instep area. I could see why I never got this worked out before with my tippy x step.

From my limited understanding, so someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but this is why you want to remain centered in your stance/posture, so you can shift back and forth faster. If you let your weight go too far back during the backswing (outside the posture) you have to move all that mass forward to get to the plant. If you are more centered, there's less mass to move from the back to the front for the shift, so the shift is quicker. But there still fundamentally has to be some movement of mass back back to front, otherwise you would just be spinning in place. So ultimately you want a short distance shift happening very quickly. Like the biggest possible impulse you can generate. So it's the nuanced combination of shifting the mass forward, but then being able to efficiently stop it quickly.

 

[Parbequeue]

From my limited understanding, so someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but this is why you want to remain centered in your stance/posture, so you can shift back and forth faster. If you let your weight go too far back during the backswing (outside the posture) you have to move all that mass forward to get to the plant. If you are more centered, there's less mass to move from the back to the front for the shift, so the shift is quicker. But there still fundamentally has to be some movement of mass back back to front, otherwise you would just be spinning in place. So ultimately you want a short distance shift happening very quickly. Like the biggest possible impulse you can generate. So it's the nuanced combination of shifting the mass forward, but then being able to efficiently stop it quickly.

Excellent description, thanks man. That sounds right inline with how I'm feeling.

So in OLD - the weight never shifts all the way back onto the "post" rear leg, it's maintained through the pressure on the instep of the plant leg?

When incorporating a one step, you just shift that weight ever so slightly more onto the rear instep (as the b-wipes) and bounce it back catching yourself THEN swing through.

It seems like I got it... without throwing a disc hard to tell though! My only concern is that I'm jamming into the front hip, is there a way to tell the difference? Essentially I'm just thinking about keeping pressure on the instep, screwing the rear foot counter clockwise, then clockwise into the plant with flexion into a solid brace and swinging against that. Sound right? I'm not aware of any knee extension pumping the swing yet though, maybe I have to drop lower as I'm
Shifting.

 

[Parbequeue]

I'm also noticing in certain gifs now that it appears the pros are moving forwards with the hips until the last second - that's when they appear to execute the move / shift / hips. Particularly apparent in Mcbeth and Paige.

 

[UhhNegative]

Excellent description, thanks man. That sounds right inline with how I'm feeling.

So in OLD - the weight never shifts all the way back onto the "post" rear leg, it's maintained through the pressure on the instep of the plant leg?

When incorporating a one step, you just shift that weight ever so slightly more onto the rear instep (as the b-wipes) and bounce it back catching yourself THEN swing through.

It seems like I got it... without throwing a disc hard to tell though! My only concern is that I'm jamming into the front hip, is there a way to tell the difference? Essentially I'm just thinking about keeping pressure on the instep, screwing the rear foot counter clockwise, then clockwise into the plant with flexion into a solid brace and swinging against that. Sound right? I'm not aware of any knee extension pumping the swing yet though, maybe I have to drop lower as I'm
Shifting.

Well, I think SW22 is very slightly shifting back in this gif here. You can see his front knee bending as he turns back and his front toes lift a little bit and at that point he's got weight on the rear side. Then he pushes back onto front side the knee/leg stiffens and extends as he swings. So I guess it depends on how you want to define a OLD. In theory you could swing with just weight on the front leg the whole time, but I don't think it would necessarily translate that will to a one-step or x-step. Because I feel like the hardest part is how to land on that front leg correctly (not like I even know yet probably).

I think jamming on the front hip you'll know if your hips aren't able to freely face forward throughout the throw. The way I understand it, jamming is when the hip can't clear but I can't pretend to really understand the full mechanics there.

 

[sidewinder22]

So in OLD - the weight never shifts all the way back onto the "post" rear leg, it's maintained through the pressure on the instep of the plant leg?

When incorporating a one step, you just shift that weight ever so slightly more onto the rear instep (as the b-wipes) and bounce it back catching yourself THEN swing through.

It seems like I got it... without throwing a disc hard to tell though! My only concern is that I'm jamming into the front hip, is there a way to tell the difference? Essentially I'm just thinking about keeping pressure on the instep, screwing the rear foot counter clockwise, then clockwise into the plant with flexion into a solid brace and swinging against that. Sound right? I'm not aware of any knee extension pumping the swing yet though, maybe I have to drop lower as I'm
Shifting.

Correct on the first part, it doesn't fully shift to rear foot or completely leave the front foot or feel that way.

The pressure is not necessarily maintained on the instep, it moves around the feet like a figure 8, toward the heels(both) in the backswing. It can move toward the heel/s, but doesn't necessarily mean on the heel or heels are on the ground, don't be afraid to have rear heel on ground - standing/walking it gives you stability, not dynamic enough to go without it. And then pressure starts transitioning back to front instep while still moving to rear heel and then reverse front toe to heel and rear heel to toe. You can make a figure 8 swing.

I think jamming will feel like you finish chest downward over front leg. Not jamming feels smooth finishing upright balanced on front leg - proud chest left shoulder under chin.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[sidewinder22]

Well, I think SW22 is very slightly shifting back in this gif here. You can see his front knee bending as he turns back and his front toes lift a little bit and at that point he's got weight on the rear side. Then he pushes back onto front side the knee/leg stiffens and extends as he swings.

I'm not trying to bend the front knee going into the backswing. I'm trying to keep it straight while moving butt back toward both heels to clear or get out of the way of the backswing to come straight thru inside foot like inside swing drill.

So I guess it depends on how you want to define a OLD. In theory you could swing with just weight on the front leg the whole time, but I don't think it would necessarily translate that will to a one-step or x-step. Because I feel like the hardest part is how to land on that front leg correctly (not like I even know yet probably).

I don't recommend OLD keeping the rear foot airborne when actually throwing. Some people(generally speaking) seem to take OLD way too literal and not really pay attention to the details.

The feel is the same - hip to the sky, but is more dynamic as momentum comes in linear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpp7ZFLHK90#t=3m16s

 

[Parbequeue]

Hello All!

We had a big dump o snow before I could get out to the field and work on discoveries. So I got desperate and got the ol' garage set up

I think I've got the feel for the lower body now, I'm really making a more solid transition onto the front leg by what feels like skating into it - my upper body is pulled through after / during the transition to the leg - at least what it feels like.

I have a problem getting the disc into Center to push out again. I think I might need to be over the disc more to let the shoulders pendulum - right now my lead shoulder is going back around me. Instead of under and up to create a big swing space. That sound right?


You can see when I try to incorporate the off arm I tense up and my shoulder gets all jacked - there's a thread on that somewhere! I think it's cause I'm also pushing down and not swimming away with it.

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks like a good skate off the rear leg, but not landing on the front skate properly - I think it would shoot out to the left tee and you would crack your tailbone or back of head.

You start and end too staggered and closed. Open up at address and stride straight, or even to the right, might feel really to the right just to get straight.

You don't need to use your rear arm and tense up, just don't spill the beverage!

I think your hinge might be in your shoulder. Your front leg seems to push your shoulder back instead of the hip or both hip and shoulder and not letting the shoulder/s swing forward.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5cS9u_Y0w&t=4m32s

 

[Parbequeue]

Thanks SW, the lower body is feeling a bit more put together / unit like. You were right about the shoulder big time! What a difference!

Happy new year folks! - garage training Center in full effect.

I still haven't fixed my stagger stride, but working on it!

I did however, potentially fix my shoulder issue.
Yeah, I was bringing my shoulder up and around me and behind me , instead of forward and long and towards the target. If that makes sense. All my levers feel much better now. ...just that pesky off arm!