Hip flexibility & strength exercises

[Brychanus]

Hey everyone, I thought this topic deserved a specialized post since it's so central to rocking the hips, posture, flexibility, and overall form. In me and a lot of other developing players, I notice that hip flexibility and strength are rate limiters. Many of us have had deskbound lives, and even if you're fairly active, you might have trouble getting into powerful positions and moving fluidly when learning & powering up form.

Based on how my own and a lot of other form reviews seem to go, I wanted to share a few exercises and drills that my physical therapist or SW22 recommend that are helping quickly. Of course, consult a Dr. if you have any injuries/significant issues.

Context The hips comprise several muscles that extend the legs and stabilize the knees. Here I'm focused on the gluteus maximus, medius, and minimus (see attached imgs). The Maximus is what you think of as the meat of your butt, and what takes the brunt of sitting/squating motions, and is the strongest of them. But the medius and minimus help with hip abduction, and need to stretch out and back with the hip rock. These muscles can get weak when you're doing principally sitting/standing/forward walking motions and not much else in life. In DG, these smaller muscles are really important since they load in the backswing, control the plant stride, and need to have sufficient strength and flexibility to clear the full range of motion. Here are some motions that can help.


Exercises:
https://youtu.be/mq1_dshFOWg?t=162
https://youtu.be/53tRgkZ-BEM?t=506

Monster walks & lateral strides (Awesome & I find these kind of fun to do)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nry0...=MedStarHealth
https://youtu.be/7C8mL0v976o?t=161

Standing hip abduction
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/fitness/multimedia/standing-hip-abduction/vid-20084670

Transverse lunges
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4WG-bxY1_4&ab_channel=TestosteroneNation

Disc golf drills
In DG, siderwinder22's Inside Swing drill is also great because it not only teaches you the ideal posture/range of motion for the BH, but it stretches out hips and other muscle groups important to DG (and life):
https://youtu.be/FWasFdvnGio?t=367

I like to do it in both directions to even out my mobility.

I'll link more when I get a chance, please add your favorites!

 

[Brychanus]

It's obviously not all about raw mass, but Drew's hips don't lie. Hip hypertrophy for days.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I can't say that I have any sort of "leg to stand on" (thank you, thank you) with regards to flexibility - but over the course of the last 12 months I've amped up my work outs to 6 days a week and put on about 12 pounds of mass.

I've added 2 exercises that my friend who was a long drive ball-golfer calls "big boy" exercises, and if you've read this far you probably already know what they are:

1. Squats

They strengthen your lower body, targeting your glutes and quadriceps.

They also make you use your core muscles.

Other muscles that benefit from squats are:

Hip muscles
Calves
Hamstrings
Obliques
Squats burn calories and might help you lose weight.

They also lower your chances of injuring your knees and ankles. As you exercise, the movement strengthens your tendons, bones, and ligaments around the leg muscles. It takes some of the weight off your knees and ankles.

They help make your knees more stable, too.
What's more, squats may also help boost your bone mineral density for stronger bones. It adds strength to your skeleton, mainly in the spine and lower body.

-- https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/health-benefits-of-squats

Nothing checks your ego at the door faster than realizing how hard a deep squat is when you've spent the last... uhhh 25 years sitting at a desk for the vast majority of your day.

2. Deadlifts... yeah, pretty much all of the above plus lower back and core.

I also do quad, hip abductor and inductor (?), hamstring specific and calf-raises exercises but if I could only do 2 exercises for general strength, endurance etc - it's squats and deadlifts.

Lastly, a post from way back by the discgolf doctor about shoulder blade / scapular stability made a big impact on me because my serratus anterior has always been under developed and I believe the cause of some scapular winging. About 4 months ago, I started including pullups and some serratus specific exercises to improve overall shoulder, lat, scapula health and it's been a huge help with my ongoing neck issues that pop up with discgolf.

Long story short, my over-all fitness is through the roof. I don't throw further, but I'm not suffering ankle pain and zero neck pain.

 

[flatflip]

Great collection of movements there. I'm a big fan of the monster walks.

I've spent the past couple of years managing a torn labrum so I have developed some opinions.

Not sure who named this, but the World's Greatest Stretch is a great warmup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o04xhq1b2bI

There's a lot of overlap between the hip stability development exercises and the movements typically prescribed for IT band syndrome:https://sprintrehab.com/home-exercises-for-it-band-syndrome/

Pistols are the king of hip stability exercises. There are all sorts of good variants to build up the strength & balance for the full movement, starting with eccentrics: https://youtu.be/2EhLOEq7BfM

I'm a big fan of doing 1-legged clean&presses with a medicine ball. More ambitious people do full on olympic bar lifts on one leg but I'm at the stage in my life where have no desire to injure myself in the gym.

My physio is big on quadrupedal movements for antirotational stability and to develop connection between lower torso (hips) and upper torso (shoulders). The bird dog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CbDUTlil_A
and its variations
https://youtu.be/w7qL3KoQuzQ
are probably the best place to start.

It's also worth noting that it's valuable to simply move your the joints through their full range of motion daily, even if it's not "streching" per se. This will break up any junk in the sockets and remind your body how far it can move safely. Standing leg circles do a good job of this with the added benefit of some stability demands.

 

[axion]

If squats and deadlifts helped with distance id be
Eagle McMahon.

My squat and pull total over 1250 and 400' takes me a distance line. I sit around 190 atm.

I've also had both hips operated on for labral tears. My hip mobility is terrible. I can only pull every 2 weeks, and I have to squat high up until meet prep. Because the **** hurts

 

[Brychanus]

If squats and deadlifts helped with distance id be
Eagle McMahon.

My squat and pull total over 1250 and 400' takes me a distance line. I sit around 190 atm.

I've also had both hips operated on for labral tears. My hip mobility is terrible. I can only pull every 2 weeks, and I have to squat high up until meet prep. Because the **** hurts

For sure, my main intent in the thread is that at some level mobility/flexibility/profound weakness are limiters, and prohibit good work on form/powering form up to the throw. I was unhappy to find out that I'd fallen into those categories in a couple important areas. Otherwise it's fun to see what other people are up to for general fitness out there! I'm sorry to hear about the hips.

 

[axion]

Sorry, I wasn't disagreeing, more so affirming that hip mobility/balance is probably more important than 'general strength'


I think starting young and having huge hands with a positive ape index is probably your best bet

 

[Brychanus]

Sorry, I wasn't disagreeing, more so affirming that hip mobility/balance is probably more important than 'general strength'


I think starting young and having huge hands with a positive ape index is probably your best bet

No worries! That has to be right. I do wonder sometimes how much "fast twitch" training would matter, but I still have enough to sort out in my form before chasing smoke there.

Dude, I don't like to make excuses, but I am starting to seriously envy people like McBeth and Gibson. I'm relatively tall but if you look at my form critique you'll see my wingspan (equal to my height) is basically half shoulder width. Arms/hands are very non-apey. So my levers are in the "wrong" order of length for disc golf. I'm basically a torso on short stilts. At least it's motivating me to milk every last bit of power I can out of good technique and get my lower body mobility as mobile as I can!

 

[flatflip]

I do wonder sometimes how much "fast twitch" training would matter, but I still have enough to sort out in my form before chasing smoke there.

This may be a topic for another thread, but it's possible that you could do both at once. If you believe the people who sell isometric training gear, isos build fast twitch muscle as well as any exercise modality.

https://www.dragondoor.com/the_science_of_isometrics_part_i_the_third_law_of_strength/

This is more the idea of training as neuromuscular programming rather than strict muscle building (though mass development can be a byproduct).

You can target the throwing kinetic chains by making isometric exercises of the stances where you want max engagement in your throw (doorframe drills, static pushing drills, etc) and holding them at maximal tension for say 8-10 second reps, sets of 6.

 

[Brychanus]

This is more the idea of training as neuromuscular programming rather than strict muscle building (though mass development can be a byproduct).

You can target the throwing kinetic chains by making isometric exercises of the stances where you want max engagement in your throw (doorframe drills, static pushing drills, etc) and holding them at maximal tension for say 8-10 second reps, sets of 6.

That's really cool! Tricks to help supplement the neuromuscular programming you get from DG drilling seems especially useful & something I've been thinking a lot about.

 

[Salto]

A few months ago I started taking hip exercises a bit more serious thanks to reading some of Brychanus' posts. It has been quite beneficial to my form development I feel. I think it indeed helps increasing your distance potential, but the most benefit I feel is that it makes it easier and faster to implement changes/ find improvements for my form.

I'd like to add a routine of 8 hip exercises that feel pretty good and I'll be working with these for a while: https://gmb.io/hip-mobility/

Sent from my SM-G991N using Tapatalk

 

[Brychanus]

Nice. I'm still always experimenting in the gym especially since I've still got a couple rehab-y processes going on. Here are a couple recent kettlebell swings drills that keep things fun and fresh. They've helped me get better body control and stability and been helpful teaching me to swing with my whole body feeling more connected to the ground in different directions. Keep in mind that proper technique should trump load, consult a Dr. or expert as necessary, etc.

Usually good to start here if you've never done kettlebells:






Nice "moderate" ones:





Can do Hammer Swing X-step of course.



These too once you've got the hang of more basic swings. Warning: there's some "young man's violence" in these models so I'd recommend focusing first on posture and smoothness over trying to juice it, especially at first.

 

[Brychanus]

Had some huge DG-kettlebell crossover insights while trying the swings in the VAHVA vid at the end of my last post.

I was working on new form stuff and SW22 pinpointed a posture issue - that I need to "trap" the disc with my chest. It feels like hefting up a heavy Battering Ram powerfully between your shoulders, and gets a nice, tight load to heave into the backswing and downswing. Shawn Clement gets into it specifically here (reminder that all of his Tilted Spiral vids are gold!). He made me realize that I had achieved some tilt in my posture, but if you don't get into and maintain the "trapped" position throughout he swing you will leak power and get off balance to a greater or lesser extent. Well, I found this really easy to do in some slower drills recently, but something still wasn't clicking for me when I sped up.

Where do kettlebells come in? I'm continually learning that there are a few ways to get some decent pop on a disc with bad posture but it's really, really hard to do most kettlebell swings and stay in balance without trapping the weight. If you do especially the lateral versions of kettlebell swings, you can get a very powerful load into the rear leg brace, and maintaining proper posture to plant the kettlebell downswing is just like swinging that golf club (i.e., also the same as throwing a disc in a different posture). I found that the two-handed lateral swings were really helpful in getting everything tighter and more ram-like - both hands on the object is a good calibrator and gets you quickly into a powerful stance and posture. The DG backhand is just taking the off arm into whatever your preferred position is. So I think of these as "supplements" to DG-specific drills - great for getting grounded, developing full control over your posture, rhythm and tempo, and developing that "heavy momentum" we want in the swing.

Some useful mappings between DG and kettlebells
There are also a few neat things I noticed while working through that VAHVA video above (with less weight and focusing on smoothness and rhythm compared to the model). Number 3 was my favorite of the day given my current form issue. But I discovered a lot about posture.

1. 2:07 Atlas swings - really excellent for loosening up and getting awesome ground contact & syncing upper and lower body. Look for the ball golf mechanics in how he moves.

2. 2:38 One arm Atlas swings - swinging forehand and backhand in opposite directions (Slash Thru)

3. 2:59 Side Swing (two hands!) - try it with a light kettlebell and a more neutral DG-like stance and you'll find your "sweet spot" posture for chest trapping. Once you understand what "trapping" feels like in that stance, you can also do one handed and play around with deeper and more shallow bends etc.:

4. 3:18 One Arm Side Swing - suck at FH like I do? Well, this one will help you get your legs grounded and swinging easy leading with the lower body and lag really quick. Just wow.

5. 3:33 Bentover swing - power hyzer, anyone? Be careful when first learning.

6. 3:46 High rotation - power anhyzer, anyone? Ditto.

7. 4:02 Horizontal swing and one-handed version -BH and FH all in one.


Words of caution specifically for "DG crossovers":
-Again, for kettlebells it's not about the amount of weight per se, just that it's heavy enough that you'll go off balance quickly if your posture sucks. Heavier weight also needs more extreme posture to get a full range of motion, so going "just heavy enough" seems wise.

-Your DG postures will differ a bit even if the mechanics are similar. So I found it fun to e.g., take the lateral/side swings and stand in my standstill backhand stance. Leading me to...

-Some instructors will have "open" shoulder kettlebell swings, whereas recall we want it closed in DG. So you can work out with modified closed shoulder swings that go laterally toward the "line of play".

-SMOOTH, SLOW, and LIGHT at first. It's easy to torque something if your posture and technique are bad, just like DG!

Happy swingin' and slingin'!

 

[Sheep]

Had some huge DG-kettlebell crossover insights while trying the swings in the VAHVA vid at the end of my last post.

I was working on new form stuff and SW22 pinpointed a posture issue - that I need to "trap" the disc with my chest. It feels like hefting up a heavy Battering Ram powerfully between your shoulders, and gets a nice, tight load to heave into the backswing and downswing. Shawn Clement gets into it specifically here (reminder that all of his Tilted Spiral vids are gold!). He made me realize that I had achieved some tilt in my posture, but if you don't get into and maintain the "trapped" position throughout he swing you will leak power and get off balance to a greater or lesser extent. Well, I found this really easy to do in some slower drills recently, but something still wasn't clicking for me when I sped up.

Where do kettlebells come in? I'm continually learning that there are a few ways to get some decent pop on a disc with bad posture but it's really, really hard to do most kettlebell swings and stay in balance without trapping the weight. If you do especially the lateral versions of kettlebell swings, you can get a very powerful load into the rear leg brace, and maintaining proper posture to plant the kettlebell downswing is just like swinging that golf club (i.e., also the same as throwing a disc in a different posture). I found that the two-handed lateral swings were really helpful in getting everything tighter and more ram-like - both hands on the object is a good calibrator and gets you quickly into a powerful stance and posture. The DG backhand is just taking the off arm into whatever your preferred position is. So I think of these as "supplements" to DG-specific drills - great for getting grounded, developing full control over your posture, rhythm and tempo, and developing that "heavy momentum" we want in the swing.

Some useful mappings between DG and kettlebells
There are also a few neat things I noticed while working through that VAHVA video above (with less weight and focusing on smoothness and rhythm compared to the model). Number 3 was my favorite of the day given my current form issue. But I discovered a lot about posture.

1. 2:07 Atlas swings - really excellent for loosening up and getting awesome ground contact & syncing upper and lower body. Look for the ball golf mechanics in how he moves.

2. 2:38 One arm Atlas swings - swinging forehand and backhand in opposite directions (Slash Thru)

3. 2:59 Side Swing (two hands!) - try it with a light kettlebell and a more neutral DG-like stance and you'll find your "sweet spot" posture for chest trapping. Once you understand what "trapping" feels like in that stance, you can also do one handed and play around with deeper and more shallow bends etc.:

4. 3:18 One Arm Side Swing - suck at FH like I do? Well, this one will help you get your legs grounded and swinging easy leading with the lower body and lag really quick. Just wow.

5. 3:33 Bentover swing - power hyzer, anyone? Be careful when first learning.

6. 3:46 High rotation - power anhyzer, anyone? Ditto.

7. 4:02 Horizontal swing and one-handed version -BH and FH all in one.


Words of caution specifically for "DG crossovers":
-Again, for kettlebells it's not about the amount of weight per se, just that it's heavy enough that you'll go off balance quickly if your posture sucks. Heavier weight also needs more extreme posture to get a full range of motion, so going "just heavy enough" seems wise.

-Your DG postures will differ a bit even if the mechanics are similar. So I found it fun to e.g., take the lateral/side swings and stand in my standstill backhand stance. Leading me to...

-Some instructors will have "open" shoulder kettlebell swings, whereas recall we want it closed in DG. So you can work out with modified closed shoulder swings that go laterally toward the "line of play".

-SMOOTH, SLOW, and LIGHT at first. It's easy to torque something if your posture and technique are bad, just like DG!

Happy swingin' and slingin'!

I really need to come back and read read all of this.
Thanks for putting it together.

It was a thought a few years ago on working on my core, but I never got a kettle bell.
That and I'm a bit lazy to work out because all the other work that I do is... a work out.
And one of the jobs I do is a pure core usage, which actually translates to disc golf.
So, yeah, I'm a bit lazy on some things. haha

 

[Brychanus]

BTW, for busy adults, I think if I were to recommend one and only one kettlebell swing, it would be the Atlas swing.

There's a reason it's a favorite of golf instructors and the weight shift/leg action, flexibility, and two-way rhythm and hip mobility are really powerful.

Even after just a couple days with no weight or light weight I can tell it's getting my body looser, "binding" a lot of the swing mechanics better, getting my legs to make more sense of the ground beneath me, and my swing is getting smoother. I think DG posture has its own additional challenges but in terms of the swing chain, posture, and motor/proprioceptive training they're awesome.

 

[Sheep]

BTW, for busy adults, I think if I were to recommend one and only one kettlebell swing, it would be the Atlas swing.

There's a reason it's a favorite of golf instructors and the weight shift/leg action, flexibility, and two-way rhythm and hip mobility are really powerful.

Even after just a couple days with no weight or light weight I can tell it's getting my body looser, "binding" a lot of the swing mechanics better, getting my legs to make more sense of the ground beneath me, and my swing is getting smoother. I think DG posture has its own additional challenges but in terms of the swing chain, posture, and motor/proprioceptive training they're awesome.

Looking up the atlas swing, I could agree with that.

It seems like its good for rotational exercise and for keeping yourself loose and flowing.

One of my largest hickups with the disc golf swing is my back acting up, and I'll generally not engage in a full backswing sometimes not getting my shoulders and hips properly into the swing, which in turn comes to a rounded swing and a late release regardless of my foot positioning.

 

[Brychanus]

More if you like kettlebells & (disc) golf crossovers:

Kettlebell and posture/alignments (Atlas swing style)


Other exercises (Sound broken at beginning but kicks in later)


Consider how these swings relate to concepts here and sprinkled throughout other Clement gems:


Of course, for disc golf all these concepts apply to all SW22 and HeavyDisc/HUB and Blake T etc. weight & hammer content and swinging anything efficiently, I'm just currently very interested in the role of Kettlebells in helping me to connect the dots for my specific posture control issues right now.

A few cross-references for the "deep dive" and relevant to topics floating around right now. If there's "something new under the sun" I haven't found it yet!

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125336
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137696&page=2
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138941
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19220
(I could keep going and cite most of the "best hits" of the DGCR and DGR Forums, but you get the idea)

 

[Salto]

Nice. I'm still always experimenting in the gym especially since I've still got a couple rehab-y processes going on. Here are a couple recent kettlebell swings drills that keep things fun and fresh. They've helped me get better body control and stability and been helpful teaching me to swing with my whole body feeling more connected to the ground in different directions. Keep in mind that proper technique should trump load, consult a Dr. or expert as necessary, etc.



Usually good to start here if you've never done kettlebells:













Nice "moderate" ones:











Can do Hammer Swing X-step of course.







These too once you've got the hang of more basic swings. Warning: there's some "young man's violence" in these models so I'd recommend focusing first on posture and smoothness over trying to juice it, especially at first.

Thanks for these drills. After trying them out with some of the lighter kettlebells I have it seems that I ordered some heavier ones. These feel great and many activate the same muscle groups for throwing a disc. I think I could even feel an immediate difference in throwing a disc after these exercises from firing up those muscles with the kettle bell.

Sent from my SM-G991N using Tapatalk

 

[Brychanus]

A couple other things about hip & leg flexibility that are obvious to some people but once again made me feel sheepish...

I couldn't get over how much trouble I was having with my leg action rebuild in my x-step. Even when the action was better, my body seemed to shy away from pumping harder and higher to get a full range of motion for an effective power backhand. Then, I discovered I'd lost over half of the range of motion I had in my early 20s when I tried to straddle.

I used to be able to drop nearly effortlessly into a near-full straddle, and a full straddle with just a bit of warmup.

I used to be able to easily do this and a bit higher:

Today, even getting halfway there is a struggle.

Why does this matter for DG?

Well, when I was looking at the elite throwers, I kinda simply gloosed over how poorly my legs' oomph and range of motion were functioning in general compared to people like this guy:



The frame moving over his legs heading into the pocket, I'm willing to bet, is very hard for many people and especially adults to do not just because of the mechanics, but because of a lack of adequate strength, flexibility, or mobility in that straddle-like direction. Notice that he still has a wide, strong dynamic base moving from leg to leg even in his modern form. It's not a coincidence how outstanding leg action in the big guns is related to their power. Maintaining power and transfer in the straddle direction is critical.

The drive leg move into a full power sidekick at any height is just like doing a Hershyzer drill. If your range of motion is sawed off, guess what? You can't maximize the leg power, the CoG sling and separation like a pitcher on the mound, and all that sick action we want in the swing.

I returned to many of my old kicking mobility and explosiveness drills to start getting them back in gear.

I also want to remind everyone that the Hershyzer drill is not just about weight shift per se. Seek the drop and drive acceleration off your rear leg with the toe being the last point of contact. Come all the way into a high backswing, then all the way forward into the drop into the plant. I bet you'll find your body doesn't like going past a certain width. Keep challenging the drive stride and width of the stride over time. If you're having trouble striding wide, I'd bet you have some issues in the straddle direction that are worth loosening up. Push it.

 

[Brychanus]

Adding a little more as I learn. Continuing the theme of flexibility + learning mechanics.

I can feel and see how my range of motion has caused compensation in my mechanics, which hasn't made learning them any easier. If I take a maximum forward Hershyzer stride or ball kick, I can feel muscles in the groin region bind up reflexively, and my natural stride tends to stop just before that mechanism kicks in with significant resistance if I stride farther. Very hard to learn a full rock back and forth in balance that way, and there is an injury risk in pushing it without significant warmup.

Here were a couple things I found interesting and motivating to keep working on my range of motion that others might find helpful.

Here's an accessible academic article about different types of stretches & increasing range of motion. I'm not a domain expert there but hopefully it is helpful. It discusses the tradeoffs in different types of stretches are several important takeaways and I suggest reading it all if you're into pushing your limits safely. I did look at the literature in the 10 years since that article, and the specific debates are by no means resolved there. Google Scholar is available to you. Long story short since 2012: stretching is good, static and dynamic stretches both have virtue though the tradeoffs are in question, and ballistic stretching is usually not recommended.

The next article discusses the link between groin or hip injuries to pitching.

https://armcare.com/blog/groin-injury-pitching/


Here are some pitching stretches and related stuff. These are definitely helping with my most problematic areas.



Dynamic stretches can be very healthy when done safely and in control.



A learning lesson is that the throw is about dynamic flexibility - getting nice and loose and stretched out in a maximum range of motion, and learning mechanics in that range. You're never doing a straddle in a DG BH or FH. But you are ideally moving through a big range of motion and us desk-topians tend to have tight adductor regions.