How to not hurt your elbow on a sidearm – a new video by Scott Stokely

[Frisbee-Hanski]

 

[Spectacledbear]

So smooth.

 

[SonicGuy]

I watched all of the available videos and I can find multiple quibbles with Scott's technique advice. But this video is perfect. Whenever I read one of these form threads and people are talking about "oh your body weight is shifted too far forward" or "you aren't bracing" or "you are hugging yourself", these are not constructive things to make you a fundamentally great thrower. It is like the old "keep your head down" in ball golf. Completely useless by itself. Bracing, weight shift, everything, is the byproduct of a good throw. Simply saying "this time I will brace!" won't do crap.

I watched a video of Jaime Sadlowski (ball golf long drive champion). His main tip for long drives? Swing faster. No crap Jaime. But you know what? Almost everyone leaves a little bit of juice off their swing. The reason being that you have inhibitors; you are trying to use technique and not putting the energy in that you could, or that very technique is inhibiting your energy input.

Next time you are out throwing in the field, recognize how much effort you just put into your max distance throw. Now put a little bit more into it. Throw so *fast* that you think you may hurt yourself. Forget your footwork, forget everything but the purpose of throwing your hand forward at the fastest possible velocity, to the point where your hand may fly off and your elbow may break. It's like doing a 1 rep max on the deadlift; you will discover that extra gear you were never using, and all the other technique points you thought you needed to master will suddenly be perfect.

 

[sidewinder22]

I watched all of the available videos and I can find multiple quibbles with Scott's technique advice. But this video is perfect. Whenever I read one of these form threads and people are talking about "oh your body weight is shifted too far forward" or "you aren't bracing" or "you are hugging yourself", these are not constructive things to make you a fundamentally great thrower. It is like the old "keep your head down" in ball golf. Completely useless by itself. Bracing, weight shift, everything, is the byproduct of a good throw. Simply saying "this time I will brace!" won't do crap.

I watched a video of Jaime Sadlowski (ball golf long drive champion). His main tip for long drives? Swing faster. No crap Jaime. But you know what? Almost everyone leaves a little bit of juice off their swing. The reason being that you have inhibitors; you are trying to use technique and not putting the energy in that you could, or that very technique is inhibiting your energy input.

Next time you are out throwing in the field, recognize how much effort you just put into your max distance throw. Now put a little bit more into it. Throw so *fast* that you think you may hurt yourself. Forget your footwork, forget everything but the purpose of throwing your hand forward at the fastest possible velocity, to the point where your hand may fly off and your elbow may break. It's like doing a 1 rep max on the deadlift; you will discover that extra gear you were never using, and all the other technique points you thought you needed to master will suddenly be perfect.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Well I kind of like Scott's anti technique keep it simple attitude.. Is there a video where he actually shows us something?

 

[SonicGuy]

Well I kind of like Scott's anti technique keep it simple attitude.. Is there a video where he actually shows us something?

I think he wants you to pay for it. Adults want money, not attention

 

[trasf]

Solid advice for other throwers who already have few decades of discing experience. :clap:

 

[BuiltTooLong]

I feel like his "400 ft throw" went about 290.

 

[timothy42b]

The golf swing should be as simple as it can be, but NOT SIMPLER.

I was sure this quote was from Homer Kelley, author of The Golfing Machine. But google says it was Einstein. Oh well.

 

[jdm0514]

Well I kind of like Scott's anti technique keep it simple attitude.. Is there a video where he actually shows us something?

https://youtu.be/d69Z1TlnAwM

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Hey I remember that one... thanks it's a gooder.

 

[slowplastic]

I feel like his "400 ft throw" went about 290.

If I threw with that much effort it would have been closer to 290'. It's insane the easy leverage he gets on the disc.

 

[deyo7]

Hey I remember that one... thanks it's a gooder.

Cliff notes version:

https://youtu.be/tZ7K5cvN1-E

I'm glad to see Stokely doing these videos again lately. I think he's a good teacher/communicator.

 

[TAFL]

... Bracing, weight shift, everything, is the byproduct of a good throw.

Properly, a good throw is the byproduct of doing all those things well.

Stokely is speaking to the end result of developing a good throwing technique. All of the finer points should be drilled enough so that you can throw without thinking about them. That leaves just thinking about the line you want. He's quite correct in that trying to focus on the discrete parts of the technique isn't what you want to be thinking about when throwing.

I think Stokely's weakness in instruction is that he's too far removed from being a novice and struggling to build good form, if he ever had to work at it and wasn't just a natural.

 

[slowplastic]

He's quite correct in that trying to focus on the discrete parts of the technique isn't what you want to be thinking about when throwing.

Yeah you definitely can't think of more than 2 things at once and have any chance of throwing successfully.

It's also really hard to figure out what is an important thing to feel or focus on, and what is a result of the other parts working. Like you can't just have "a good follow through" but if you are in balance during your swing, your follow through will look and feel clean. Just giving an example in general there.

 

[SonicGuy]

This is the same in disc golf as it is in any sport. Those with natural ability can do it naturally, and look back at the things they do in isolation to try and explain it to those that cannot.

I liken it to the Karate nerds. No matter how hard they practice the katas, you will always get your ass beat by Chad. Because Chad has natural control over his body and strength. Nerds do not. Nerds string together bodily movements like combos in mortal combat. Press a for reach back, b for straight pull through, c for bracing, a again for power pocket, c for weight shift... At the end of the day until nerd realizes that button combos don't mean anything nerd will be stuck at a plateau.

Sidewinder, despite the appearance of a couch potato, clearly has superior coordination ability. He is a disc golf Chad. The part of his brain that nerds use for thinking his brain has allocated for moving. He looks back at what happens when he uses his innate ability and sees button combos. He relates the secret button combos to nerds online who struggle and struggle to achieve Chad levels. After much frustration they simply lie to everyone and say they are hitting (how many feet are people lying about these days?)

In order for nerds to reach Chad levels, they need not look to secret combos, or disc golf alchemical movement. They need a cheat code. They need to reorganize their brain to become like Chad; set aside intelligent brain function for kinetic awareness. Nerds know this place, it is the place you were when you spazzed out and punched Chad in the face in third grade, the only time you ever felt strong in your lifetime of beta orbiting. Dig deep into your Lizard brain, and unleash some psychotic monkey strength, for this is the place that Chad uses to throw 500'.

This is the zen of disc golf.

 

[sidewinder22]

This is the same in disc golf as it is in any sport. Those with natural ability can do it naturally, and look back at the things they do in isolation to try and explain it to those that cannot.

I liken it to the Karate nerds. No matter how hard they practice the katas, you will always get your ass beat by Chad. Because Chad has natural control over his body and strength. Nerds do not. Nerds string together bodily movements like combos in mortal combat. Press a for reach back, b for straight pull through, c for bracing, a again for power pocket, c for weight shift... At the end of the day until nerd realizes that button combos don't mean anything nerd will be stuck at a plateau.

Sidewinder, despite the appearance of a couch potato, clearly has superior coordination ability. He is a disc golf Chad. The part of his brain that nerds use for thinking his brain has allocated for moving. He looks back at what happens when he uses his innate ability and sees button combos. He relates the secret button combos to nerds online who struggle and struggle to achieve Chad levels. After much frustration they simply lie to everyone and say they are hitting (how many feet are people lying about these days?)

In order for nerds to reach Chad levels, they need not look to secret combos, or disc golf alchemical movement. They need a cheat code. They need to reorganize their brain to become like Chad; set aside intelligent brain function for kinetic awareness. Nerds know this place, it is the place you were when you spazzed out and punched Chad in the face in third grade, the only time you ever felt strong in your lifetime of beta orbiting. Dig deep into your Lizard brain, and unleash some psychotic monkey strength, for this is the place that Chad uses to throw 500'.

This is the zen of disc golf.

It took all of my natural athletic ability to max out at maybe 300' throwing a Boss as hard as possible exactly as you prescribed and lead to injuries.

I had to unlearn everything I thought I knew about throwing, and completely rethink technique. Learning to throw backhand is like learning to write or throw lefty. There is no cheat code. It takes practice, lots of smart disciplined practice and hard work.

 

[scoopa]

Body awareness is key. You become "better" at controlling your body by using it. If you become stuck at a plateau and digress for years like myself you have to do something different...

My wife one day said why don't you try working out? Why not? I had been in an infinite loop of drills for over 10 years and only had flashes of power - Like one throw in a blue moon would be 400' speed 7 fairway power. Otherwise I'd be back down to the 300's on average. This, however, drove me because if I can do it ONCE then my body is capable of doing it again.

I got a rowing machine. Full body, low impact, 10 minutes a day. I also implemented some things from disc golf strong. No more than 30 minutes a day 5 days a week.

Within a week I saw tangible and repeatable distance increases. I do not attribute it to strength or speed increase. I attribute it to being able to execute my form. My brain and body were communicating better. The increase after a week was no more than 30 feet more on average, but it was the most exciting day in my now close to 20 years play disc golf.

Ok, now that I feel old - I've been playing since I was 13 and OBSESSED with form improvement for over 10 years. I have always been mediocre at best with sports.

Hopefully this helps someone. I have been consistent with my new routine for 2 months. The gains are slow, few feet here or there, or its easier to hit, but new things in form are finally clicking. I'm feeling and executing new things.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Just want to point out the "swim" move here... I have struggled learning a decent FH for years.. It's been a tough haul and a lot of overthrowing and elbow pain. Now that I see how much slower my timing needs to be BH as in: the arm is much later in the movement than I thought, I used to lead with my arm and then body. Even worse so with my FH...

So the swim move for those not reading that thread, is where you bring your off arm out in front and then pull it back. Like you're swimming... one armed... to start the movement from your off arm shoulder. It's made a huge difference, I step up, bring my other arm out, and around, and then start my other arm to throw. Much more fluid and natural.. Huge distance gain, no pain!

 

[slowplastic]

So the swim move for those not reading that thread, is where you bring your off arm out in front and then pull it back. Like you're swimming... one armed... to start the movement from your off arm shoulder. It's made a huge difference, I step up, bring my other arm out, and around, and then start my other arm to throw. Much more fluid and natural.. Huge distance gain, no pain!

It's hard to tell from words and also what you feel you are doing...just make sure you aren't pulling/yanking the off arm behind the torso before the throw. That can feel like you're getting your body turning faster by pulling the off arm back...but it doesn't work out after a certain point and can hurt your aim. If you watch top FH pro's, or better yet baseball pitchers, they bring the off arm's elbow to their lead hip. This keeps the arm tucked in to the torso and then it swims/pushes forward as the throwing arm releases. The swim move is the opposite direction because back arm is releasing forward, whereas in BH the lead arm is releasing outward.