lolbus needs help

[lolbus]

Hey folks,

Long time browser, first(ish) time poster. I've been trying to improve my BH form but I'm hitting a wall and would greatly appreciate some feedback. I've seen many issues with my swing and the my stats demonstrate that something (probably many things) is terribly wrong (attached below for context). I've been playing for just under 2 years now and have been doing some of SW's drills to try and gain more of a feeling of what I should be feeling in the BH throw. I've read the fundamentals of form a few times over and I'm hooked on thinking about how bodies move in an athletic context, so please talk nerdy to me! When learning, I like to try and understand things from as close to first principals as I can, so apologies in advance if my questions seem obvious, I'm coming from a place of curiosity.

A bit about me: I'm a reasonably tall 34 year old dude (6'3.5) with a decently strong lower body and long arms (6'7.5 wingspan), so I know there's a lot my body has to offer, I just need to figure out how to trick my body into doing what I want. I enjoy many sports like volleyball, softball, squash, and I can get a lot out of my body in those sports. What I find funny is that the disc golf drills have significantly improved the power and quality of my squash backhand - the buttwipe drill specifically has given me a well of power I can now access without putting any strain on my elbow. However, as soon as I get a disc in my hand, everything goes wonk. Recently, I've gotten a really annoying case of tennis elbow that I'm finally getting over that was caused by DG, which is my primary focus here - being able to play my favourite sport (DG) without hurting myself.

Vids:

back view (60% power attempts):
side view (60% power attempts):

Also, I've attached is a set of results from the videos shared. The top 3 are the stats from the tosses from behind, and the other 3 are stats from the side. As you can very well see, my spin rate is atrociously bad for my speed (nearing FH level spin ratio) and I bet it's somehow related to my elbow issue. In these videos, I'm not really focusing on release angle or hyzer angle, just on what feels good to my body.

I have theories as to what's going wrong, but I can't seem to identify the base of the chain or what's most likely causing my elbow issues, so I'll keep my theories to myself for now as I think it would be useful to not try and bias any initial feedback other than I'm hoping to reduce stress on my elbow!

 

[sidewinder22]

There's a bit to unpack.

1. Grip and Disc choice. It is affecting your mechanics and could also be a significant reason to your tennis elbow as well as the other stuff below. It took me several years to finally get comfortable with grip. I also found that trying to grip too hard for too long/early in throw lead to golfers elbow issue. I'd work on throwing putters/mids and put the high drivers away for a bit.

2. Proper footwear and practice surface. I don't know what kind of boots you are wearing but they don't look very athletic. It looks like you are trying to throw on ice and slipping around. Your rear foot totally slips out.

3. Net and launch trajectory. The net is probably making it worse having to throw that low. You need to learn to launch the disc upward like a projectile. Your swing is divergent going down across your body, instead of swinging it on plane with the body spiral like an Olympic Hammer.

Best Practices PSA

1. New Thread vs Old Thread - If you have not started a thread in here, then by all means go ahead and start one. Just remember that this is blood in and blood out. I keed, I keed, don't take yourself or the critique/analysis too seriously or you will never make it out alive. ;) - If you have...

www.dgcoursereview.com

Swinging upward nose down.

Ezra giving a good tip or demonstration of swinging downward nose up vs swinging upward nose down. l_ajpOY3Ohs

www.dgcoursereview.com

 

[lolbus]

Thanks for the reply SW!

1. Thanks for this resource, I'll read up on this and glean what I can from this. For the time being, I've attached a few pics of how I'm holding the disc today. For extra context, I've always found gripping putters super weird. They usually have a floppy feeling in my hand whereas drivers don't. I'm sure I'll find something helpful in the resource you've shared
2. Definitely not athletic boots (blundstones) and throwing on wet concrete (snow melt). Also, could I bug you for the specific timestamp range? I have a feeling I know what you mean, but knowing what I'm looking for will help me find it next time
3. This is a good point about having to throw downwards into the net. I'll check out the post on swinging upwards nose down and watch these hammer throw vids

For extra background, I've always found the idea of swinging wide with a loose arm without collapsing/rounding tough to grok. I think I might be retracting my right scap in order to keep the angle from collapsing which is not desirable. Next set of vids I'll see if I can manage a shot from above and I'll throw outside instead of in the net

Thanks again! I appreciate the guidance as I feel like I've been wandering aimlessly for a while in my form improvement journey

 

[Brychanus]

Just wanted to talk nets since I'm unfortunately constrained to it more often than not -

I made my setup able to catch discs all the way up to the ceiling so it was safer to throw upward nose down with fewer worries about nearby objects. I made the side of my basement I use to drive the most on basically a bunker of blankets reinforced with padding on anything sensitive so I could throw more freely.

I try not to do too much net work without throwing outside (either round or practice) to make sure whatever I'm working on inside generalizes to outside.

Putter grip became easier for me after swinging or throwing countless hammers, clubs etc., that force you to gain leverage on the "chunkier" object in the hand. Grip is fairly personal & working with other objects you naturally use can help. I'll suggest SW give you some specific pointers based on your figs there.

 

[lolbus]

Thanks for the reply Brychanus,

I like the idea of making an entire wall or wider surface a net. I'll have to steal that for next off-season!

I haven't had the courage to get out and throw hammers yet, but you and SW suggesting I do this is all the nudge I need to get out and finally do it. How heavy are the hammers you're throwing? I have a sledgehammer and a regular hammer. I figure the heavier (within reason) the better, is that a safe assumption?

 

[Brychanus]

Thanks for the reply Brychanus,

I like the idea of making an entire wall or wider surface a net. I'll have to steal that for next off-season!

I haven't had the courage to get out and throw hammers yet, but you and SW suggesting I do this is all the nudge I need to get out and finally do it. How heavy are the hammers you're throwing? I have a sledgehammer and a regular hammer. I figure the heavier (within reason) the better

Hammerstuff:
1. Light (tack hammer): learning grip + wrist action, closer to weight of disc but still heavy enough to learn about leverage and wrist tension/mechanics.
2. Medium (1-2lb claw hammers, light mallets): more of the above, developing resistance/redirection out from the chest (claws coming at ya teach fast!)
3. Heavy (3+ lb mallet, 6+ lb sledge): firm up wrist/high leverage from whole chain, recruits bracing/& whole body action + recoil against the toss, higher access to centrifugal effects in whole body, patience to swing the hammer rather than let the hammer swing/ragdoll you, helps smooth you out or you'll hurt yourself.

 

[lolbus]

Well I definitely didn't expect to make progress this quickly, but after throwing sessions today and yesterday, I'm almost certain I've found much better arm action!

Yesterday I focused on throwing putters/mids higher in the air outdoors, but didn't really net better throws. The search continued.

Today I went out with the sole focus of keeping my arm taut, making sure I don't retract my scap, making sure the disc got vaguely in my center chest, and saying eff it to the lower body. I went out to a baseball diamond and let myself be as inaccurate as I needed to be while aiming out to the wall down middle field to give myself something to aim for. I warmed up before every throw by doing a hammerless hammer throw with no disc to get the motion fresh in my brain and remind myself how swinging my arm heavy like I do with my squash backhand without retracting my scap feels like. I ended up throwing my zones/methods/buzz SS out 280-325 with no elbow pain at all! I would describe the feeling to very close to a weaker squash backhand since I wasn't really using the ground with any intent.

I'm gonna grind this feeling in every day before the snow comes again next week, and then I'll slowly add more back in as the taut feeling with the disc becomes second nature.

Finally, THANKS SO MUCH folks! I was totally stuck and lost and was starting to feel hopeless. I'll upload some more vids as I start to reintegrate lower body control though, so stay tuned for that

 

[Brychanus]

Well I definitely didn't expect to make progress this quickly, but after throwing sessions today and yesterday, I'm almost certain I've found much better arm action!

Yesterday I focused on throwing putters/mids higher in the air outdoors, but didn't really net better throws. The search continued.

Today I went out with the sole focus of keeping my arm taut, making sure I don't retract my scap, making sure the disc got vaguely in my center chest, and saying eff it to the lower body. I went out to a baseball diamond and let myself be as inaccurate as I needed to be while aiming out to the wall down middle field to give myself something to aim for. I warmed up before every throw by doing a hammerless hammer throw with no disc to get the motion fresh in my brain and remind myself how swinging my arm heavy like I do with my squash backhand without retracting my scap feels like. I ended up throwing my zones/methods/buzz SS out 280-325 with no elbow pain at all! I would describe the feeling to very close to a weaker squash backhand since I wasn't really using the ground with any intent.

I'm gonna grind this feeling in every day before the snow comes again next week, and then I'll slowly add more back in as the taut feeling with the disc becomes second nature.

Finally, THANKS SO MUCH folks! I was totally stuck and lost and was starting to feel hopeless. I'll upload some more vids as I start to reintegrate lower body control though, so stay tuned for that

I always tell you guys/gals that are built like trebuchets that they have a very high theoretical power ceiling. That should motivate you - if you're patient to keep changing how you move, that 280-325 will start to look pedestrian to you!

Keep grinding on the postural points SW told you. I cannot stress enough how much it just comes down to getting input, applying it, and tons and tons of practice.

Used to play squash - squash backhand isn't a terrible proxy for part of the move off the front leg.