Indoor Disc Golf Course??

[pmay5]

I would pay up to $20 to access that facility. But probably only in bad weather conditions, I enjoy the outdoor aspect of playing and I imagine most people that live in the Portland area are there for the outdoor activities.

I like the idea of a practice putting area and driving nets, complete with speed guns and video recording. It would be a great way to work on your form. This should help to pull in the more experienced players. Maybe just install a 9 hole course (that can be reconfigured into different layouts) to give the experienced players a change of pace and perhaps pull some families in.

The Bar and Grill would be a good idea, more streams of money coming in and keeping players hanging out longer. A monthly or annual membership should help with repeat business.

I hope it does well, but taking a great outdoor sport and moving it indoors, in a scaled down way, may be quite a challenge! Especially in an area that has limited bad weather (cold, snow, humidity). :clap:

 

[jeffmonty]

In addition to your original idea, maybe if you had 18 holes, with different putting scenarios and/or obstacles on each hole, and then organized some putting leagues, that may be the difference in making it a successful endeavor, IMO. Putting leagues around here are pretty dang popular, especially the ones located at a Brewery or Taproom.

 

[gammaxgoblin]

$35 for an entire day...maybe but not likely...$20 more interested...video recording (with files emailed to me), speed guns, things i dont have access to normally would make it worth the money 1-2x per year.

 

[nothinbuttree]

Skill shots-see some of Simon's older videos.
Putting skills course. Watch episodes of Jomez's "the putting game".

This, with driving range, speed guns, fancy ball golf like video graphics mimicking real courses, and test driving different discs, I would pay 15-20 for.

An actual course? Pass.

 

[txmxer]

$35 for an entire day...maybe but not likely...$20 more interested...video recording (with files emailed to me), speed guns, things i dont have access to normally would make it worth the money 1-2x per year.

I think this type of thing would appeal to a lot of DG players.

20 years ago I went to a golf pro shop to analyze my swing and get fitted for shafts that were matched to me. No idea what I paid for that, but this seems similar in concept.

But it will be the repeat customer that dictates success. This could be someone getting lessons or playing some type of league. I could see that taking off. Works in bowling or pool or other activities.

The key is to keep the entry cost down. Make it up on food and beverages or other ancillary services. Not saying gouge the customer, but a business needs to make money or else it's a hobby.

One thing that needs to be considered is the potential market. While DG is certainly more popular today than ever, it's a pretty limited audience and from what I've seen, they aren't sitting on piles of cash they can't figure out how to spend.

We've got a few sporting complexes here—mainly soccer that have similar footprints. No idea what the economics are for these facilities.

I guess from those thoughts, I'd suggest some real market analysis in the area of interest would be the appropriate business move.

 

[wolfhaley]

I just don't see it working tbh. There's lots of good suggestions for things that may help it become more popular. But having a bar and grill will require licenses and inspections and at least a few employees (bartender, cook, dishwasher, etc.) Somebody will need to man the pro shop/disc rental area. Someone needs to do/organize maintenence duties. Someone will need to edit filmed "rounds" or shots and e mail them. Someone has to clean the restrooms and empty the trash. Who's doing inventory of everything? Someone needs to be in charge of all of this too. There'd need to be additional people trained in multitple areas to cover breaks and call in's like every other business. If something like this opened near me I'd check it out for sure right after it opened. I doubt it'd be around for real long though.

 

[Flick Maniac]

They tried this in Finland a few years back. Easily accessible from Tampere (i.e. a major city). Couldnt get it sustainable. Dont remember what the price was. I went once, we actually rented the whole thing for our club one night. Was super fun but dunno how often you would go.

Nowadays, with the postcovid boom? I think its still a huge challenge, unless you happen to own a suitable property and pay zero lease, only utilities.

I think it needs to be in an area where winter weather is bad enough for people to want to play indoors. But then again, wheres your income for the summer months.

 

[Flick Maniac]

There's a video somewhere out there (with Nate Sexton commentary) of a tournament in the basement of a shopping mall in Finland (pretty sure, maybe Sweden). It looked like a boring course down hallways, but obviously a different situation.

CCDG commentary. This is like the mall utility hallways and bomb shelter. I played in one of those events. The walls are spray concrete and totally wreck your discs. Surely a cool DG thing to have done once but thats it.

 

[wolfhaley]

Some things, most honestly, look better on paper. This is not a good idea. Scrap the disc golf, open a bar and grill. maybe weekly putting leagues if anything.

 

[dmoore1998]

I just don't see it working tbh. There's lots of good suggestions for things that may help it become more popular. But having a bar and grill will require licenses and inspections and at least a few employees (bartender, cook, dishwasher, etc.) Somebody will need to man the pro shop/disc rental area. Someone needs to do/organize maintenence duties. Someone will need to edit filmed "rounds" or shots and e mail them. Someone has to clean the restrooms and empty the trash. Who's doing inventory of everything? Someone needs to be in charge of all of this too. There'd need to be additional people trained in multitple areas to cover breaks and call in's like every other business. If something like this opened near me I'd check it out for sure right after it opened. I doubt it'd be around for real long though.

And to that point, to even BEGIN to be sustainable...you probably have to have an outdoor course on the property as well so that employees have something to do during nice-weather months. You use the same pro-shop for that course, there's a place for people to go during rainy days to play. You probably have to run a LOAD of leagues year-round to keep people coming in regularly. The indoor facility basically would have to be an ancillary feature of a major disc golf course/pro shop/TD operation.

 

[BillFleming]

Why does indoor sports work for other sports? There's indoor soccer, indoor ball golf, etc that is cost effective. Why not disc golf?

It all comes down to the cost. In other sports, you are already paying a high price to either rent outdoor spaces (such as an outdoor soccer field). Or paying high prices to play (ball golf green fees can be from $20 to a couple hundred dollars). So paying, even $50 an hour for an indoor experience is acceptable. Look at Top Golf, depending on time of day, it can cost $30 to $50 an hour - but people pay it even though they can't use their own golf balls and can't use their drivers. It works, however, because people are used to paying that kind of money to play ball golf.

But with disc golf, players aren't paying $30 or more to play on a regular basis.....so, an indoor experience isn't going to work because disc golfers aren't used to paying that kind of money. And it will be extremely difficult to provide an experience that disc golfers feel is worth spending that much. Have you seen comments made about Pay-to-Play courses? Even charging as low as $5 can cause players to give the course low ratings. I know of a course where people were jumping a fence to avoid paying $3 to play.

 

[itsRudy]

Think totally enclosed, 2 acre (apprx 100,000 sq ft) 18 hole course. Would include natural obstacles, elevated T boxes, REAL trees, nets lining each hole, pro shop, beer garden, commissary with real food, lessons, and so on and so on. The question: Would you pay $35.00 entry fee to spend as much time (well....ya know) as you like?

Definitely not. :doh::doh::doh:

I once had fantasies like this. Well, to an extent. I imagined a indoor single 250 hole that could take on any configuration including elevation. Somehow with hydraulics and platforms. But after playing an actual 4-hole course, I realized the same thing could be accomplished with portable baskets on a suitable piece of small land (with elevation) where any 3-4 holes could approximate at least 85% of the 250 foot approaches you're likely to encounter as long as you move the baskets around for like 1000x cheaper.

Think of the economics of heating a 2 acre (300ft x 300ft) building would cost. I bet the parking lot alone would cost more than you could ever recover from this disc golf equivalent of a Saudi Arabian mega-project.

And think what problem you are exactly solving. On any given day, I would much rather be outside (escaping the indoors) in a much larger space even including the winter and most simply drizzly days. So I get either a (mostly free or much cheaper, bigger course) vs $35 for a super tiny one on just the super rainy days. On those days, I'd simply rather stay home and most people do just that on rainy days (been told this by numerous business owners including salons, restaurants, movie theater operators). It's simply in the human psyche.

All those extras you are adding also cost money to run and won't be worth it (daily lessons, beer garden, etc). If your area could support a beer garden, it'll already have one dedicated to be just that (and a good one too instead of a mediocre add-on) and a pro-shop could support one guy going around the shops/courses area and giving lessons once a month or so. But not daily, I doubt even baseball or other of the major market sports has the market to support something like that.

The closest I can find in your line is this local Putting League building Simon Lizotte is visiting. That seems 100x more doable. Few people practice their putting enough so this solves a problem. Unlike DG, this is inherently way more social too so the beer flows so that's just extra incentive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIAtDWhXuds



And even that is an indoor obstacles course that does this only once a week from what I gather.

https://www.facebook.com/puttingwednesdays/

https://ultimateobstacles.com/

 

[dmoore1998]

Why does indoor sports work for other sports? There's indoor soccer, indoor ball golf, etc that is cost effective. Why not disc golf?

It all comes down to the cost. In other sports, you are already paying a high price to either rent outdoor spaces (such as an outdoor soccer field). Or paying high prices to play (ball golf green fees can be from $20 to a couple hundred dollars). So paying, even $50 an hour for an indoor experience is acceptable. Look at Top Golf, depending on time of day, it can cost $30 to $50 an hour - but people pay it even though they can't use their own golf balls and can't use their drivers. It works, however, because people are used to paying that kind of money to play ball golf.

But with disc golf, players aren't paying $30 or more to play on a regular basis.....so, an indoor experience isn't going to work because disc golfers aren't used to paying that kind of money. And it will be extremely difficult to provide an experience that disc golfers feel is worth spending that much. Have you seen comments made about Pay-to-Play courses? Even charging as low as $5 can cause players to give the course low ratings. I know of a course where people were jumping a fence to avoid paying $3 to play.

Right, if your dream is to run an indoor disc golf facility...you'd be better served to make your dream running an indoor soccer, basketball, or golf facility (or all 3, or whatever, we have some indoor multi-use spaces around here) and then just carefully crafting a few disc golf holes around the outside of the nets being used by other fields and let people practice some random putter shots if you care. Then randomly toss out a few practice baskets on a few slow days in the winter and set up your own 9-hole obstacle course as a temporary course/event thing. Set up a putting league in the winter, etc. It's just not a standalone business at this time.

 

[itsRudy]

Right, if your dream is to run an indoor disc golf facility...you'd be better served to make your dream running an indoor soccer, basketball, or golf facility (or all 3, or whatever, we have some indoor multi-use spaces around here) and then just carefully crafting a few disc golf holes around the outside of the nets being used by other fields and let people practice some random putter shots if you care. Then randomly toss out a few practice baskets on a few slow days in the winter and set up your own 9-hole obstacle course as a temporary course/event thing. Set up a putting league in the winter, etc. It's just not a standalone business at this time.

Seriously, I have a such a huge facility (376 feet long) less than 2 minutes from me (.3 miles). It's looks like an inflatable building. It's less than 7 years old and a rich area of the country.

Cost many millions and changed hands due to bankruptcy at least 3 times. I never see the parking lot more than 1/8 full even in winter.

All the outdoor places like the local ball golf center and parks (both sport fields and just trails) are routinely packed in summers. A local park with sport field near me was PACKED this weekend (parents/some local game) during the worst rains.

In a lot of areas of the country, the indoor sports thing is a solution crying out for a problem imo.

 

[txmxer]

I'll compare it to other local indoor activities.

Trampoline park: $10 per day or $15 for a monthly pass (unlimited visits)

Arcade (cidercade) is a new arcade place. Video games from the 80s to now, pinball, pool, pizza parlor on onsite brewed cider for adults of course: $10 for day pass, I think $15 for monthly pass.

Those two facilities are similar concept (play all day). I'd say that is your price point.

Don't forget you need parking

Some good points.

I mentioned an arcade (cidercade). The place seems to be booming. An acre of video games, pinball, a few pool tables, a birthday party room, etc.

What seems to be working is an "entertainment complex". I could definitely see having some baskets for a putting league, but it has to draw people across the spectrum.

 

[Hampstead]

Talking to yourself again?